{"id":96135,"date":"2026-07-08T23:04:41","date_gmt":"2026-07-08T20:04:41","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.chilieathonita.ro\/?p=96135"},"modified":"2026-07-08T23:06:45","modified_gmt":"2026-07-08T20:06:45","slug":"forgiveness-pain-and-the-saints-of-the-prisons-the-orthodox-brotherhood-fr-theologos","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.chilieathonita.ro\/en\/2026\/07\/08\/forgiveness-pain-and-the-saints-of-the-prisons-the-orthodox-brotherhood-fr-theologos\/","title":{"rendered":"Forgiveness, Pain, and the Saints of the Prisons &#8211; The Orthodox Brotherhood, Fr. Theologos"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">What is forgiveness, what is pain, and what can we say in this context about the most beloved of contemporary Romanian saints &#8211; the Romanian saints in prisons? How can we forgive and how can we manage pain?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Listen to a beautiful discussion between two members of the Orthodox Brotherhood and Father Theologos on this topic.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Enjoy watching!<\/p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"amara-embed\" data-url=\"http:\/\/www.youtube.com\/watch?v=Z5bK2zp1KGI\" data-initial-language=\"en\" data-show-subtitles-default=\"true\" data-team=\"o-chilie-athonita\"><\/div>\n\n\n\n<script type=\"text\/javascript\" src=\"https:\/\/amara.org\/embedder-iframe\"><\/script>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Fr. T.: Glory to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit, now and ever and unto ages of ages. Amen. Through the prayers of our Holy Fathers, O Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on us! Amen. Our dear ones, we are here with two people, Theology students, from the Orthodox Brotherhood (Fr\u0103\u021bia Ortodox\u0103). You should know that the Orthodox Brotherhood comes to the Holy Mountain every year and helps us. We thank the leader of the Brotherhood. Who sends you?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Pilgrim: Yes, Dan Gr\u0103jdeanu.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Fr. T.: Yes, we thank Dan whom I know relatively well, I can&#8217;t say very well, we&#8217;ve met several times. We thank D\u0103nu\u021b for sending people here because they help us a lot, you should know. And they, being theology students, asked me to do a podcast. They have some questions here, and I\u2019ll answer them. Of course, it will be a very free discussion and so as not to delay too much, because I know you get bored with long introductions, we will go straight to the subject. It&#8217;s about Ioan and Ilie and they will ask me questions in turn and depending on these questions and my capacity, which is not great, we will try to get into the subject and discuss a few issues. If I understood correctly, it&#8217;s about the theme of forgiveness and the theme of pain, right?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Pilgrim: Yes.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Fr. T.: Who will start?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Pilgrim: I&#8217;ll start. We also thank His Eminence Irineu of Alba Iulia for the blessing he gave us to come to the Holy Mountain.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Fr. T.: Thank you.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Pilgrim: We thank Father Pimen who gave us his blessing to do this interview and for you to answer these two topics that we will discuss within the missiology course at the Faculty of Theology in Alba Iulia. We are trying to find explanations for forgiveness, for pain, and of course, after forgiveness and pain, we hope that joy will come.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Fr. T.: Yes\u2026<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Pilgrim: And we would like to start by reading in the Paterikon where a young monk asks an elder: &#8220;Father, what is happening to me, for I am very troubled? I cannot forgive my neighbor.&#8221; And the elder says to the young monk: &#8220;Brother, come, let us pray together, let us say the Lord\u2019s Prayer together!&#8221; And when they reach Matthew 6:12, &#8220;and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us,&#8221; the elder says: &#8220;and do not forgive us our trespasses just as we do not forgive those who trespass against us.&#8221; Fr. Theologos, what does forgiveness mean?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Fr. T.: Yes, indeed it is\u2026 The word &#8220;forgiveness,&#8221; including the verb &#8220;to forgive,&#8221; in many languages somehow captures the essence of what forgiveness means. In Romanian, you can see that it comes from &#8220;ieri&#8221; (yesterday) and &#8220;tare&#8221; (tough), meaning &#8220;yesterday I was tough.&#8221; Whenever we talk about an adjective\u2014&#8221;tough&#8221; is an adjective, a tough person, yes\u2026 that\u2019s a relative description. So, since I was tough yesterday, it means that today I am soft. So, when I ask for forgiveness, it means I realized that yesterday I was tough, meaning I was not as I should be, because a person should not be tough towards his brother; yesterday I was tough towards my brother, and because of this, today I say: yesterday I was tough, forgive me, for I repent! The same applies to Greek, where the term is &#8220;sinhoresi.&#8221; &#8220;Sinhoro&#8221;. \u201cHoro\u201d means \u201cplace\u201d and \u201csin\u201d means \u201ctogether.\u201d We also have \u201csinodos\u201d \u2013 \u201cgoing together.\u201d Sinhoro \u2013 which translates to \u201cforgiveness\u201d in Romanian \u2013 actually means that I accept the other person into my space, into my place, alongside me\u2014in other words, unity.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">As I said, just as yesterday I was firm and today I am soft\u2014that is, I open myself to the other, I unite with the other \u2014so too, in the case of the Greek equivalent, we have &#8220;sinhoro&#8221;, which means I welcome the other into my space, that is, I unite with them. As you can see, this theme of unity appears in both Romanian and Greek, and, in fact, it also appears in English\u2014 the only other language I know\u2014 where it is expressed as \u201cforgive,\u201d meaning I welcome the other into my space and soften my heart by giving them something. &#8220;A d\u0103rui&#8221; meaning &#8220;to give\u201d in English. So forgiveness is, first and foremost, the restoration of our bond through the softening of our hearts, and this is achieved by offering my self\u2014or rather, offering my love\u2014because my self is defined, above all, by its capacity to love; I offer my love to them. Even though I think they made a mistake. I realize that I was the one who made that mistake, and that\u2019s why I say, \u201cPlease forgive me! Forgive me!\u201d Do you understand? So forgiveness is the restoration of love; it is the restoration of unity following a mistake\u2014that is, a separation caused by hatred, which of course stems from me, even if I believe it came from them. And always remember that forgiveness is a spiritual act of union and mercy\u2014 it is not a matter of justice! Forgiveness is always an injustice, if you will, like any form of love\u2014but an injustice not in my favor, but in the other person\u2019s favor. That&#8217;s what forgiveness actually is.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And in the Lord&#8217;s prayer, first of all, it doesn\u2019t say, \u201cForgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us.\u201d The Greek text says something else. It\u2019s very hard to translate right now\u2014\u201cand forgive us what we owe, as we forgive those who owe us.\u201d Of course, it refers to spiritual debts and is correctly translated into Romanian as \u201cforgiveness,\u201d but I want to emphasize that we have a duty to ask others for forgiveness. And the moment we separate from them, we have a duty to restore that unity, because unity is the right way to be. The Church has no unity, the Church is unity. It is unity in the Holy Spirit. And that is why heaven is complete unity, while hell is loneliness, eternal separation. So it is very, very important to realize that we must forgive\u2014 that is, we must unite with others\u2014 and above all, it is our duty. The moment we fail to fulfill this duty, we feel deep down that we have a debt, that we carry this existential burden, this existential flaw that gnaws at us because we are separated from others. And that is why we must always ask for forgiveness from God, and then from others as well. And as I was saying, that is where God demands our complete righteousness and total commitment\u2014in other words, He says that He will not forgive us if we do not forgive.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Now, we must understand that, in theology, God is described as impassive, unmoving, and dispassionate. God does not change with the wind, and God forgives immediately; it is just that we do not feel that forgiveness if we are estranged from our brother. If we are estranged from our brother, we are also separated from God, and then we do not feel the flow of God\u2019s love; and this lack of the flow of God\u2019s love, this absence of God in our hearts\u2014which stems not from God\u2019s closing Himself off from us, but from our own closing ourselves off\u2014we slam the door in God\u2019s face\u2014we feel this as God not forgiving us. But once again, it\u2019s not His problem\u2014 it\u2019s ours. So we must resolve this matter through prayer\u2014to God, saying, \u201cLord, have mercy on me!\u201d\u2014and to our neighbor, saying, \u201cBrother, forgive me!\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Pilgrim: If you said we forgive out of mercy\u2026<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Fr. T.: No. We don&#8217;t forgive out of mercy! It is an act of mercy.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Pilgrim: An act of mercy. Yes. As the Savior was being crucified on the Cross, in the seven words recorded by Luke 23:34, He said, \u201cFather, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Fr. T.: That is right.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Pilgrim: Is forgiveness mandatory, and how many times must we forgive?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Fr. T.: Yes, on our part?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Pilgrim: Yes.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Fr. T.: Well, that has nothing to do with what the Savior said on the Cross; that\u2019s a different matter.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Pilgrim: No, no.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Fr. T.: For us, it\u2019s mandatory, but not in a legalistic sense\u2014I mean, in the Catholic sense\u2014that is, if you don\u2019t forgive, the police will come and\u2026<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Pilgrim: Arrests you.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Fr. T.: Arrests you. Rather, in the existential sense. Unforgiveness is the most severe spiritual illness because, as I said, unforgiveness leads to loneliness, to separation, and that is hell.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Pilgrim: Pride.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Fr. T.: Yes, pride. So hell is, par excellence, the state of unforgiveness. It\u2019s like saying, \u201cI won\u2019t forgive, I won\u2019t forgive, I won\u2019t forgive,\u201d and then the person becomes isolated, and that wears them down, gnaws at them. Because, as I was saying, human nature is unity. I\u2019ve mentioned many times in the videos I make that we are all one Adam\u2014a global Adam made up of many people. We are not seven billion or billions of people; rather, we are one person in many. Now, we are broken by sin, fragmented by this hatred. Yes, and that is our tragedy. That\u2019s why we say that things aren\u2019t right here on earth\u2014because we\u2019re divided and constantly at war with one another. Forgiveness restores this unity of Adam, and this leads to joy. Heaven is, as I was saying, complete unity, the total restoration of the whole Adam. And this unity comes through forgiveness. Forgiveness means welcoming the other person into my heart, in the same place, but that doesn\u2019t necessarily mean I have to agree with everything they say. For example, if you were to say to me right now\u2014 there\u2019s a chasm down there\u2014 and you were to say, \u201cFather, let\u2019s jump into the chasm,\u201d of course I would forgive you and I truly love you very much, but I wouldn\u2019t jump. Do you understand? A little distinction is needed here between the deed and the doer. We must always forgive the doer seventy times seven. That was a number Peter could understand. 500 times\u2014well, 490 times. But it\u2019s about constant forgiveness, all the time. That is one thing, and on the other hand, as I was saying, it is a matter of unity, because a deed that separates you from God naturally separates you from others as well. For example, if you throw yourself into the chasm.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Pilgrim: Now, to move on to the topic my colleague would like to discuss \u2014pain\u2014he\u2019s going to ask you a question.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Pilgrim: Yes, you\u2019ve told us many times that we can see how this pain has been ingrained in humanity since the fall from heaven. And as Saint Maximus the Confessor, whom we celebrate today, also says\u2026<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Fr. T.: Yes, a great saint!<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Pilgrim: After Eve saw the apple and found it appealing, and tasted it, to this pleasure there was an opposing homologous pain.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Fr. T.: That is right.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Pilgrim: A homologous pain that is planted in man to restrain pleasure because otherwise pleasure would destroy man.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Fr. T.: That is right.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Pilgrim: But now, I want to save the joy for last\u2014even though I was thinking of talking about joy first\u2014but let\u2019s do it this way\u2026 the joy at the end. The pain of others\u2014that\u2019s what interests me. Is it perhaps the case\u2014as we now know from theory\u2014that our neighbor experiences pain, or that our neighbor\u2019s pain serves as an example for us, or an occasion for us to show our love, and perhaps it is also a lesson for us\u2014so that we may learn something from it, I suppose. But the question is\u2026 it\u2019s very easy for me to rejoice with those who rejoice, but it\u2019s a little hard for me to weep with those who weep, because there\u2026<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Fr. T.: Self-love comes into play.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Pilgrim: And if they are sick or going through a tough time, I already think they&#8217;ve been given this for\u2026 I&#8217;m judging them.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Fr. T.: Yes\u2026 \u201cServes him right, the scoundrel, boo\u2026\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Pilgrim: Yes, good thing it\u2019s not me! I distance myself immediately.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Fr. T.: Yes, yes. God forbid!<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Pilgrim: How do we break through this wall?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Fr. T.: Yes\u2026 First of all, we need to understand that there are several causes of pain. There are many, but for the purposes of our discussion, we can group them into a few broad categories. The main category\u2014 the one you mentioned\u2014is this duality between pleasure and pain. In other words, the moment a person commits a sin\u2014that is, derives a distorted source of pleasure that does not come from God\u2014 at that very moment, spiritual law\u2014 in order to restore balance, to grant man his freedom again, so that he does not fall into addiction\u2014 allows for pain at a certain point. So indeed, very often, the moment we sin and do not bring pain upon ourselves through confession, forgiveness, repentance, and so on, then pain will inevitably follow as a consequence of that sin\u2014as an analogy to that sin\u2014so that this existential balance within the person may be restored. But that&#8217;s not the only reason. Another cause of pain is the cutting of one\u2019s will at the moment when the will is heading down the wrong path. I mean, I want to do that. Well, on the path I&#8217;ve chosen, there&#8217;s a chasm ahead. I don&#8217;t see it. But God sees it, and so He sends me a temptation, a trial, or a pain to put a stop to it\u2014to keep me from going down that path, yes: to keep me from marrying Stropinela, for example, or from going to college, or from getting that job. Well, at that moment, it\u2019s painful because I wanted that thing, and being cut off is incredibly painful for a person, especially if that person has a very strong will. But we shouldn&#8217;t push it too far, because that&#8217;s a sign from God that we&#8217;re heading in the wrong direction. Do you understand?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Pilgrim: Yes.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Fr. T.: Well, of course we do what we can\u2014 that is, we study for school\u2014but if it doesn&#8217;t work out and we don&#8217;t get into college or pass the high school graduation exam, that&#8217;s just the way it is. We shouldn&#8217;t make a big deal out of this and get worked up just because something didn&#8217;t happen. No! Another cause of pain is the fact that a person becomes complacent. A person becomes complacent in a form of pleasure, in fact, in a dolce far niente. In other words, they are capable of moving forward, but either they don&#8217;t realize they can, they don&#8217;t want to, or they don&#8217;t know how. And so God gives them suffering\u2014 even if they are not particularly sinful\u2014 He gives them suffering so that, through that suffering, through the cross they have borne, they may reach a higher plane of existence, a greater resurrection. Do you understand?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Pilgrim: To evolve.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Fr. T.: To evolve, yes. To have a much deeper understanding. Pain, for example, is also related to this. First and foremost, our Lord Jesus Christ, after Whom all the saints follow\u2014beginning with Abraham and Job and ending with the Romanian saints in prison. I mean, that person doesn\u2019t sin\u2014well, they do sin, but not enough to suffer\u2014 but God knows that this person can be an example, can be a guiding light, can help us through the way they behaved in that suffering, through the patience they showed, through the courage they had in that suffering, and so they are an example for us. And so, God allows them to go through this trial so that they may be a light to us, the Pampers generation. I mean, as soon as we feel pain\u2026 no\u2026<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Pilgrim: We&#8217;re whining.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Fr. T.: Yes. So there are many more causes of pain, which is why we should always think positively. So, when we see someone going through a difficult time, let\u2019s not say, \u201cThey sinned, yes, I know\u2026\u201d No! They might even be a role model for you. Of course, our Lord Jesus Christ is the prime example in the space- time continuum, but beyond that there are even smaller examples. So we have role models in our family, at work, and among our friends. Do you understand? So let\u2019s always say that the other person is an example for me: either an example of what to do or an example of what to avoid. The moment I hear an example of what to avoid, I immediately say, \u201cLord, enlighten my brother and help my brother!\u201d Do you understand? Let us always remain united with one another, rather than cutting ourselves off from one another by judging them, because that causes us pain. Because we are a part of that universal Adam. It&#8217;s like tearing a limb off my body, cutting off my finger, something like that.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Pilgrim: And we don\u2019t necessarily rebuild our connection through forgiveness, as you said earlier, but now we restore it through non-judgment, empathy\u2026<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Fr. T.: Non-judgement. Yes, through non-judgment and through the good thought within us. So let\u2019s always acknowledge the other person within ourselves. That they didn&#8217;t know, poor them, that they couldn&#8217;t, that look how hard they&#8217;re trying, and so on. It\u2019s a different story, of course, when we say, \u201cYeah, okay, I\u2019m not going to do this, but I don\u2019t know why they\u2019re doing it, or maybe they can\u2019t, or poor them, they\u2019re struggling\u2026\u201d You get it?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Pilgrim: Yes. You mentioned the saints of the communist prisons. They endured pain and torture, and forgave their executioners and torturers. What\u2019s more, they said, \u201cI forgive you with all my heart,\u201d and did not ask for revenge.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Fr. T.: In fact, a great one among them said, \u201cDon\u2019t avenge us.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Pilgrim: It&#8217;s very hard\u2026 So you see, pain, forgiveness, joy\u2026<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Fr. T.: You can&#8217;t do that\u2026<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Pilgrim: We can\u2019t\u2026<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Fr. T.: No one can do this thing. Not even they could do it\u2026<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Pilgrim: But they earned their salvation through\u2026<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Fr. T.: Obviously, because I said that salvation is union. So if you can reconcile with the person who tortured you and did what they did to you, you can certainly reconcile with your friend\u2014let\u2019s be serious.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Pilgrim: Yes.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Fr. T.: No one can\u2026<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Pilgrim: We forgive, but we do not forget.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Fr. T.: Yes, well, that&#8217;s not forgiveness. I mean, be very careful! Not to hold a grudge, not to harbor bitterness within ourselves. Not forgetting the deed. I mean, for example, I\u2019m one of the most tone-deaf people on the face of the earth. So they asked me to come to the pew. I sang once, twice, and then I said, \u201cAll right, okay, peace be with you, and thank you\u2026\u201d They forgave me\u2014I mean, it was clearly a bond of love, there was no question about it\u2014but I remember what happened\u2014 I mean, they won\u2019t ask me again. Do you understand? As I was saying, when it comes to the Romanian saints in prison, no one can do that\u2014not even them. That is exactly what the Church deals with. With the possibility of forgiveness. In other words, the Church is the therapeutic science that enables people to overcome death and separation\u2014 that is, it enables people to forgive and gives them the possibility to do so. Do you understand?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And so they came to forgive through the entire ascetic program, through all the commandments\u2014or whatever you want to call it. Through Orthodoxy, through prayer, through study, through patience, and through the struggle with themselves\u2014they came to be able to forgive, even those very torturers. And here, an essential factor without which nothing can be done is time! It&#8217;s time. Do you understand? Without time, a person cannot do it all at once. A person who has fallen is someone who needs time; they are someone who heals very gradually, meaning they need to work through their trauma little by little. That is why, when we are angry or hurt, we should not immediately say harsh words that will later require us to work even harder to ask for forgiveness. We remain silent. Let the trauma pass, let things calm down a bit, and then tomorrow or sometime later, and so on. Do you understand? If we can ask for forgiveness right away, so much the better, but let\u2019s not make the wound that has already begun to form any worse. That is essential. Do you understand?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Pilgrim: As for the saints of the prisons, they said that what they experienced in prison could not be compared to anything else in terms of joy.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Fr. T.: Yes, obviously, obviously, of course\u2026<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Pilgrim: How could they experience joy? And is this joy the state of the soul in Heaven?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Fr. T.: Obviously.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Pilgrim: Is it a connection to God, to the angels\u2026?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Fr. T.: Both with God and with ourselves. In other words, it refers to the interpenetration of persons, which in theology is called perichoresis. I mean, it\u2019s\u2026 it\u2019s very hard to explain\u2026 God is One in Three Persons. It\u2019s like three sounds from three different instruments, so to speak, but it\u2019s really just one sound\u2014yet there are three sounds there. Right? Well, it can&#8217;t be explained, but that&#8217;s just the way it is. Well, the same goes for man\u2014that universal Adam I speak of so often\u2014which is one single man made up of many persons, that is, many neurons in a single mind. God had created a gigantic mind in His own image and likeness.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Pilgrim: I learned in dogmatics \u2013 the being, the person and the energies or the work\u2026<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Fr. T.: Yes, that\u2019s about something else. The being is what it is. The person \u2013 who it is, and the energy \u2013 what it does. We are talking about complete unity\u2014 that is, in heaven, I will be in you, both of us will be in John, John will be us, we will be in God, and God will be in us. That\u2019s going to be the greatest joy\u2014 when you say, \u201cHow beautiful, how amazing!&#8221; It\u2019s going to be a great joy. The end of loneliness, the end of unforgiveness, the end of misunderstanding. In heaven there will be complete understanding, complete forgiveness, complete unity, and the full realization that we will all be in one another, we in God, and God in us.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Pilgrim: As they say at the memorial service: where there is no pain\u2026<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Fr. T.: Yes, &#8220;no sighing&#8221; and I don&#8217;t know what follows\u2026 I know the text in Greek. Because the Romanian saints in prison were united with God and, through God, with everyone\u2014including their tormentors\u2014they had this joy within them. They had that joy inside them. The torturers were not united with them; they were united with the torturers. The torturers were suffering, while they were rejoicing. I remember Father Calciu, for example. At one point, the guard came in\u2014 and so on, of course, with a barrage of curses and all that\u2014and when he opened the door, Father Calciu said to him, with indescribable joy and indescribable love: &#8220;Christ is Risen! Could I kindly ask you to bring me a slice of bread so I can serve the Divine Liturgy for Pascha?\u201d Everyone in the cell, when they heard Father Calciu say that, thought for sure they were going to kill him right then and there, they though they would finish him off. The guard was completely destroyed, flipped over with the wheels in the air, paralyzed by this man&#8217;s love. He disappeared and came back in five minutes\u2014I don\u2019t know\u2014 he came back with a slice of white bread, which was, of course, unthinkable in prison, as you can imagine.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So I want to say that if this unity and this joy exist, they can even pass through the wall of others\u2019 hatred, but for that, there must be forgiveness, all of that. Do you understand? And even Father Calciu himself\u2014if I\u2019m not mistaken\u2014 mentioned somewhere that at one point he wanted to write his memoirs, but memoirs in the sense of \u201cso-and-so did this to me, so-and-so did that, and so on,\u201d and he said, \u201cNo, because it\u2019s not good.\u201d Meaning he was reactivating his traumas, reactivating his hatred, and he said: \u201cI won\u2019t do this because it is a decrease of love in the universe.\u201d And that&#8217;s how it all came about, and then he said: \u201cLord, help me get through all this!\u201d Just think how hard it is to get through. You have to get them out, but of course, he brought them out in confession, and that\u2019s why confession is essential in order to forgive, in order to restore this unity, in order to overcome pain. You have to let them out, because if you keep them bottled up inside, you&#8217;ll explode\u2014or rather, implode.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And when he wanted to confess publicly and point fingers at certain names, he said, \u201cNo, I won\u2019t do this, because it diminishes (love)\u2026\u201d That\u2019s what I\u2019m saying. He said he didn\u2019t feel good, and it\u2019s true that he didn\u2019t feel good because unity was diminishing, love in the universe was diminishing. This is done only at the moment when the respective source of hatred is active, that is, when it can do harm. That is, if the torturer in question could do harm and so on, then Father Calciu or anyone else would say, &#8220;Beware of this man because he is a source of hatred, because he did this and that and so on.&#8221; We do not attack the person, but we say, &#8220;Be careful, this man does such things and so on.&#8221; In this sense. Speaking of Judas and others whose names are given, but generally, if the person is not dangerous, the name is not given. The name is given only if it is not dangerous. And the aim is always to focus on the act, not the person. If you focus on one person, you can stir up hatred. But on the deed. I mean, yes, brethren, you see, it\u2019s\u2026\u2014sometimes it\u2019s best not to mention names\u2014I mean, brethren, you see, there\u2019s someone who doesn\u2019t know how to chop wood, or someone who doesn\u2019t know how to sing. Try not to shout it out loud.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Pilgrim: We love the sinner, but we hate the sin.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Fr. T.: That is right. Always, in everything, everywhere. We face major problems in the Church today because people do not understand this distinction between sin and the sinner. Do you understand?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Pilgrim: Do you have another question?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Pilgrim: Now that we\u2019ve been talking about torturers and the saints of the prisons, there\u2019s a question that\u2019s been on my mind\u2026 I bought Dumitru Bordeianu\u2019s book\u2014 I think it\u2019s called Testimonies from the Swamp of Despair.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Fr. T.: It&#8217;s a really good book. Yes, and very tough.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Pilgrim: And I was a bit stuck, I froze at one point when I saw all the things they were subjected to, they weren\u2019t given water, they were given salty water, they were made to eat their own waste\u2026 Should we go further, keep reading? Aren\u2019t we burdening ourselves?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Fr. T.: Read it\u2026 Okay, yes, that\u2019s right. What I meant to say is that it&#8217;s not a book for everyone; it&#8217;s a very tough read. It depends on each person. It\u2019s good to read something like this every now and then, just to see that it wasn\u2019t a joke. And at one point, Ioan Ianolide recalls\u2014which is the best book\u2014 Returning to Christ\u2026<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Pilgrim: I read it and really enjoyed it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Fr. T.: It&#8217;s the best. There, you see that Ioan Ianolide\u2014he focuses on the transformation and sanctification of people in prisons, on the saints of the prisons, on the inner transformation of the human person\u2014 but at one point he mentions some very harsh examples\u2026<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Pilgrim: With the crucifixion on Pascha Sunday\u2026<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Fr. T.: Yes, yes, and just so you know, it was no joke. So don\u2019t you dare think that this transformation of man from sinner to saint was easy! That we just sat with our legs crossed in our cell reading the Philokalia and so on. No, it was to show the danger of communism, to show the danger of atheism, and for us today to know that Marxism and neo-Marxism, which we are witnessing today, unfortunately, is very prevalent\u2026<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Pilgrim: And the blows that the Church receives\u2026<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Fr. T.: Obviously, it&#8217;s very, very dangerous\u2014 extremely dangerous. Do you understand? Because today &#8212; well, Ianolide was prophetic; today you see that Marxism comes dressed up as something sweet, something beautiful and I don\u2019t know what else\u2026<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Pilgrim: As pleasure.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Fr. T.: Pleasure. Yes, obviously. Back in the day, they used to fight evil. Today we are fighting against the devil. So it&#8217;s a very subtle matter and a very dangerous nuance. Do you understand?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Pilgrim: Yes, so for the confessors of the communist prisons, this was a process of purification.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Fr. T.: Obviously.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Pilgrim: Of inner hygiene. Pain, forgiveness, and they reached the joy which\u2026<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Fr. T.: It&#8217;s the joy of freedom. Do you understand? Because pleasure always leads to addiction, to slavery, to bondage\u2026<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Pilgrim: And it\u2019s hard to escape from it, yes\u2026<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Fr. T.: Well, yes, obviously that&#8217;s the power of sin. Well, the moment you feel that same kind of pain\u2014 especially intense pain\u2014you rise up like a balloon and soar toward the heavens, and that\u2019s why the fathers practiced unimaginable asceticism. Ok, we may be in a pitiful state today, but that is precisely the purpose of asceticism in the Church: to bring about suffering. Fasting is a pain, isn&#8217;t it? Prostrations are a pain, prayer, waking up in the morning is a pain. Do you understand? All these. The Romanian saints of the prisons experienced this suffering in full measure. But we don\u2019t ask someone to suffer because we don\u2019t know if they can handle it. Do you understand? We don\u2019t know if they can endure it. But since God allows suffering\u2014as we were discussing the causes of pain\u2014 it means that the person in question is enduring it; perhaps that is why I told that person: \u201cWell, we don\u2019t pray for pain, but for a Christian end in peace, as it says there\u201d\u2014but the moment that person is in pain, we give them courage! Give thanks to God and pray! And so on. We&#8217;re not saying &#8220;get out&#8221; or anything\u2026 &#8220;grab a pillow,&#8221; you know?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Pilgrim: Yes, and there are plenty of examples of that today. Young people whose age is getting younger and younger\u2014people with cancer.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Fr. T.: Yes.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Pilgrim: Who, when they received from God, not from God, but through what they did\u2026<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Fr. T.: Through God&#8217;s allowance.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Pilgrim: Through God&#8217;s allowance, through an illness and the intercession of the Mother of God, they were healed and drew closer to the Church.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Fr. T.: Obviously.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Pilgrim: Should we come to rejoice in pain because it brings us closer to the Church through suffering?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Fr. T.: 97% of people have come to Church through suffering. There are very few people who were sanctified from their mother\u2019s womb. Most of us, through pain, clearly. The cross\u2014it is the Cross of Christ. There\u2019s no other way. If there had been any other way, Christ would not have been crucified. Christ said to the three apostles who were the most devoted among the apostles, \u201cStay with Me for an hour, brethren, and pray, because now the future of mankind, of all humanity, is at stake!\u201d They were sleeping. He was praying in the Garden of Gethsemane with\u2026.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Pilgrim: Tears of blood\u2026<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Fr. T.: It&#8217;s &#8220;sweating blood&#8221;\u2014what does &#8220;sweating blood&#8221; mean? That is, He gave everything He could from Himself. They were snoring. They were sleepy. It can&#8217;t be any other way, it can&#8217;t be any other way. Because if even the greatest of the apostles succumbed to pleasure\u2014that is, to sleep\u2014it is clear that we must go through the cross, through suffering. Do you understand? That&#8217;s it. So this is the therapeutic role of pain, and that is why, when someone is ill, they should thank God for that illness and, above all, realize that this is a moment of grace\u2014that is, a time to pray. I know it&#8217;s very difficult, but they have to pray\u2014 there&#8217;s no other way! I mean, you have no choice.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Pilgrim: Even doctors say, \u201cI\u2019ve done my part; the rest is up to God.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Fr. T.: Yes, so we really do need to pray. I, too, know of many cases of people who prayed. And even the Romanian saints of prisons\u2014who, from the two extremes, both of which are of great worth and command great respect\u2014 the peasant, who is held in high esteem, and the nuclear scientist, who is likewise held in high esteem\u2014among peasants and nuclear scientists alike\u2014no one escaped from prison except through Christ. Do you understand?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Pilgrim: Yes. Thank you very much, father Theologos!<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Fr. T.: May God bless you!<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Pilgrim: We pray to God that you will continue to share more videos like these with us, that help us spiritually and\u2026<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Fr. T.: May Good God help us!<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Pilgrim: And we pray to God and the Mother of God that sorrow and forgiveness may bring us joy in our ascent toward salvation.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Fr. T.: It brings joy because this gives us freedom, this gives us unity, and the grace of God is the source of joy. Joy comes from nowhere else. Joy is the fruit of the Holy Spirit, of the grace of the Holy Spirit. Doesn&#8217;t it say the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace\u2026? So, folks, do not seek joy elsewhere because you will not find it! Only in the Holy Spirit will you find joy! May Good God help us!<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Pilgrim: Christ is Risen!<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Fr. T.: Truly He is Risen! Through the prayers of our Holy Fathers, O Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on us! Amen.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<div style=\"height:36px\" aria-hidden=\"true\" class=\"wp-block-spacer\"><\/div>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-default\"\/>\n\n\n\n<h4 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Online commemoration lists and donations<\/h4>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><span style=\"font-size: revert;\">May the Lord help us!<\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Online Commemoration Lists and Donations<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">May the Lord help us!<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>If you have a bank card<\/strong> and wish to send commemoration lists and donations online using your card, and\/or <strong>to support our philanthropic activity, including this site,<\/strong> please fill out the form below to make a small donation. The form is secure &#8211; we use <strong>Stripe <\/strong>for payment processing &#8211; a world leader in this field. We do not collect your personal data.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>If you do not have a card<\/strong>, or do not wish to use it, visit the webpage for <a href=\"\/?page_id=11574\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Online Donations and Commemoration Lists<\/a>.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">We will pray for your loved ones! (Please do not include inessential details like wishes, degree of kinship, introductions etc. <strong>JUST the name<\/strong>!)<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Especially for recurring commemoration lists, we ask that you please keep them to under <strong>20 <\/strong>names long. If you include a member of the family, we add \u201c<em>and for their families<\/em>.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><\/p>\n\n\n<form data-wpfs-form-type=\"inline_donation\" data-wpfs-currency=\"EUR\" data-wpfs-zero-decimal-support=\"false\" data-wpfs-currency-symbol=\"\u20ac\" data-wpfs-amount-type=\"list_of_amounts\" data-wpfs-allow-list-of-amounts-custom=\"1\" data-wpfs-selector-style=\"button-group\" action=\"\" method=\"post\" class=\"wpfs-form wpfs-w-60\" id=\"wpfs-form--OTQ2ZjM\" data-wpfs-form-id=\"DonatieEN\" data-wpfs-form-hash=\"OTQ2ZjM\" data-wpfs-custom-input-title=\"\" data-wpfs-custom-inputs=\"Commemoration List for the Living:{{Commemoration List for the Departed:\" data-wpfs-custom-input-required=\"0\" data-wpfs-show-terms-of-use=\"0\" data-wpfs-terms-of-use-not-checked-error-message=\"Please accept the Terms of Use\" data-wpfs-decimal-separator=\"dot\" data-wpfs-show-currency-symbol-instead-of-code=\"1\" 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