The Love of Christ and the Love of Money – Fr. Pimen Vlad
7 April 2023
From Holy Thursday to Resurrection – Father Pimen
12 April 2023
The questions of a large group of pilgrims formed the basis of the dialogue held with the Athonite monk Pimen Vlad. The topics are of wide interest and the answers contain solutions that can be applied now.
Enjoy!
Cristi Bumbenici: Why does God, who is good and merciful, allow suffering?… somehow also giving us a lesson that we must learn.
Fr. Pimen Vlad: Let’s look at it differently. You say you want to… let’s say, go through… there’s a fence in front and you’re determined to get through that fence. And beyond it is a chasm, and you, if you want to go through that fence, you fall into the precipice. I mean, or something else, let’s look at it this way, when you’re suffering something, right? You raise money to buy a car and your money gets stolen; “Oh, why this?! I worked for ten years and, look, he stole my money… God is unjust.” But God knows that after buying a car, maybe in 3 days, a week, a month, you would get into an accident, kill your family, and maybe kill others. And God saved you from that. But you only see the part you want to see.
Or maybe God takes one of your children? “Oh, why did God take my child?” And here I am going to tell a story that I’ve said before… A woman had a 5-year-old kid. And, [he was] terminally ill. He was taking his last breaths; she saw that there was no chance [of survival]. And so, she, desperate, alone in the house, at one point raised up her hands “Lord, don’t you dare take him from me” with that cry of a mother. And she hears the child talking. When she returned, the child got out of bed healthy. She pulled back a little when she saw this miracle, that the dying child had gotten up. She said: “Was God afraid of me?” as she had cried out like that.
Alright… time passed, she was a widow, she was raising an only child, she raised the child, well, as well as she could, she raised him. She also went to work, the child was like that… The child turned 18. He began to get into different gangs, drugs, nights away from home… He would come home, make a scandal, the poor mother did not know what else to do with him. And once, she was at home in the evening, watching TV. And a reporter said: “We are live. There was a murder by a group of young people, (a gang), and now there are exchanges of gunfire with the police, because they had weapons. And while [the reporter] was speaking, she gave the names of those people, among whom was the woman’s son, who had participated in a murder there. And when she saw it, she said, “It would have been better for God to take him away from me when he was 5 years old when he was sick.” She said this now when she saw what her son, a murderer, had become. An hour later, still live, they say: “One of them was shot.” Who? And they give the son’s name, dead on the spot, shot in the head by a policeman in an exchange of gunfire. And now she stood there ready to bang her head on the floor alone and said: “I am to blame for all this because God wanted to take him at 5 years old to be an angel; I quarreled with God: ‘No, Lord, don’t you dare take him from me.’ God gave him to me, and what has become of my son? He became a criminal and died in this way. No repentance, nothing.” Who is to blame? The mother who quarreled with God.
So we do not always ask for God’s will to be done, we ask for our will to be done. He gives you an illness, “Lord, whether you want to or not, Lord, give me health!” And after He gives you health, you start some evil and lose your soul. God knows that this illness keeps you in balance.
Who was Holy Apostle Paul? He was caught up even to the third heaven, a spiritual greatness… and he says: “…a thorn in the flesh was given to me…” So an illness. “…I pleaded with the Lord three times that it might depart from me. And He said to me, ‘My grace is sufficient for you…’” So until the end of his life, He left him in that illness, to live in humility. You see, God had His purpose. Because He gave him much grace, an illness constantly tormented him all his life, because there was the Grace of God. Venerable Paisie the Athonite, had cancer, metastasis…
Cristi Bumbenici: He lived with a small piece of lung.
Fr. Pimen Vlad: Yes, the last few years, so he was in metastasis, terrible pain, he did not take anything and, everyone asked him: “Why don’t you pray to God to heal you?” And he said: “No, this is my crown, with this I want to go to Christ. I asked Christ to give me an illness to suffer for Him.” So he didn’t ask to be healed. And he also said: “(God) listens differently to a man when he is sick and does not pray for himself, but for others. You are like God, who also, suffering, beaten, tormented on the cross, prayed for others.”
So that means putting ourselves in the hands of God and accepting what He gives us, that everything is for our benefit. We do not see beyond the fence, because that’s all we can see, we are limited, but God knows why He gives it to us. But always with prayer: “Lord, help me, as you know it is useful to me, take care of me, take care of my family, take care of everyone around us and all this world.” And God takes care. The Mother of God, her icon should be beautifully on the wall of any person’s house, the vigil lamp lit all the time, kiss the icon of the Mother of God and you leave your home and go. And then, the Mother of God works miracles.
As that story goes… let’s go into a little more about the Mother of God. Somewhere in Constantinople, in ancient times, there was a family and they had a grander house, so they also had a workshop there, where they worked. And the wall of the house was exactly towards the road. And the parents had made on the wall of the house a large icon with the Mother of God sitting on the throne, with the Savior in her arms. And whenever they passed by, when they went out of the house, they worshiped, kissed the icon of the Mother of God, asked for help where they were going, and went on. When they would return, they would kiss the icon again and enter the house.
They had a little boy who was 5 or 7 years old. And he said, “If my parents do this, it means that she is the Mistress.” And he would call her the Mistress of the house, the Lady of the house. And he would do what he saw his parents do, whenever he went he would make the sign of the cross, kiss the icon, and then he would go to play. He knew that she was the Mistress of the house, so you had to do this, because she is the boss, as they say. And once the parents were working there, the child went… Nearby, not far away, a river passed by. And because it rained, the river increased. And the children, like many of them, gathered on the shore of the stream, playing, watching what the water would bring. As the water was still digging down, this child stretched out harder, the bank broke and the water took him. The other children came home screaming, “The water has taken him.” The parents, when they heard, went out, ran quickly… the water, in its speed carried the child down the valley.
All were desperate, the mother cried out: “Mother of God, my child! Have I not entrusted him to you, Mother of God…?” and she ran down the bank of the stream. And somewhere about 200 meters further down the valley, she sees the child above the water. As we are sitting on concrete here, so he was. He stood above the water, the water went downhill, but he stood still.
“My child, but what are you doing there? Are you all right?”
“I’m fine, Mom!”
“But how do you stay there?”
“The Lady of the house holds me.”
The mother did not understand and tells him:
“Come here.” And she saw the child coming towards her on the water. Something seemed to bring him. She took him in her arms and started crying and she took him home, and after she calmed down, she asked him again:
“My child, but what did you say because I did not understand? And then he showed: “The Lady of the house, she held me in her arms and told me not to be afraid, because you are coming to get me.”
So, do you see, the Mother of God… in whom they trusted, even then, when he fell into the water she took him in her arms and saved him. That’s what leaving our lives in the care of the Mother of God means. She never leaves us and our children.
There is that other story, with a woman, likewise, a widow, she had two children. And she had to go work, on the field… the children were small. One was about 4 years old, one about 5. At first, she was taking them with her, now being older, she left them in the house and said to them: “Kids, stay here nicely, and whatever you need (she had a big icon in the house on the wall with the Mother of God), know that She is your mother, not me… I just take care of you. Ask anything of her.” And she locked them in the house. She went to the field, thought that no one would enter [her house]. She took her hoe, went to the field.
One time, who knows how the children played because they set the house on fire. And she heard the neighbors shouting, “Your house is burning!” She ran, poor thing. By the time she got home, the whole house was in flames, from top to bottom as everything had begun to fall, the walls, because it was made of wood. Desperate, poor thing, as the fire calmed down a little, she said: “Mother of God, have I not entrusted them to you? What did you do? My children!” And the fire calmed down a bit, with what people threw on it, but everything was already burned. And when she entered, among those burnt beams, what did she see? The wall where the icon was, the children were both holding on to the icon of the Mother of God and shouting: “Mother, mother!” and they were protected in that place, there was no smoke. They had been enclosed as if in a globe: the children, the wall with the icon, and the rest was all [caught in the] fire. And she went and took the children in her arms, and then thanked the Mother of God. Did you see how She protected the children? That is what it means to leave ourselves in the hands of the Mother of God, our Mother, because she is our Mother. And if we really let go, everything disappears… fear disappears, stress disappears, worries disappear, everything…
“Mother of God, please, look at this problem… as you know, solve it.” And we put it in her care, and we go on with our business because the Mother of God resolves in the best way. If a door closes, it means that it is not beneficial to go through it, and another will open for us. “No, because I want it, because that work is for me.” No, if I see that I have tried and it is a no, it means that it is not for me, it is not beneficial for me.
Cristi Bumbenici: Yes. Another simple question: How do we save ourselves?
Fr. Pimen Vlad: I feel like laughing now because I heard before… the Bassarabians have a saying: “I saved this bottle too,” or “I saved the barrel” (there is a saying…), to them everything is saved. So it is not we who save ourselves, it is not we who have these powers and we save ourselves. God saves us, and we could say that salvation is given to us as a gift, but He wants to see that we do something too.
Cristi Bumbenici: We are at least participating in this process.
Fr. Pimen Vlad: Yes. And then He said a few things to us: “Look, I’m giving you this as a gift, but you have to do these things too.” And He gave us the commandments. Do not steal, do not kill, do not be debauched… all those commandments. And to be close to God. And to us, in our faith, He told us: to be baptized, to go to church, to confess, to Commune, to do good according to strength, at home in the family to behave well with everyone, to raise your children properly. And raising children is part of the cross because, you see, our life is a cross. The Savior has drawn us the way of the cross, suffering, hardship…
We see, He did only good and received only suffering from us humans. Likewise, for us, just because we became Orthodox it doesn’t mean that everything will flow and be… [amazing]. No. It will be hard, there will be suffering, there will be the cross, but there will be help from above. And all that suffering turns into joy. Fr. Dimitrie Bejan had a book “The Joys of Suffering,” who, for 6 years in Oranki, he was imprisoned in a gulag in Siberia, after which, when he returned to Romania, they imprisoned him at the Danube, at the canal there, cutting reeds. And he wrote a book called “The Joys of Suffering,” because they were anchored in God. And all these sufferings somehow had joy in the end. What did those in communist prisons go through in our country?
Cristi Bumbenici: Martyrdom.
Fr. Pimen Vlad: They were beaten, tormented, and they lived in prayer. They rejoiced, they turned everything into joy. But, what does that mean? Anchoring in God. If we cling to God, the Mother of God, even when difficulties come, we overcome them beautifully, with joy. That is, if we pay a little attention, we see that from the thing that seems bad, comes a good. Someone comes and curses you, and you ask, what does this have to do with me? But if you look at it, you see that you were proud. And he, by making you a laughing stock in front of others, humbled you. And the pride disappears a little. That is, everything that intervenes in our lives, we see that it contributes to our salvation.
Cristi Bumbenici: Also in this context, I believe that another search can be introduced, namely related to our mission. How can we understand what mission we each have on this earth?
Fr. Pimen Vlad: Yes. You see, as I said before, God gave talents to everyone. One talent, 3 talents, 5, 10 each, yes? And we see what happened there to the one who received only one talent and buried it in the ground. What did the others do? They multiplied the talent that God gave them. And the one who buried it in the ground, what did he receive from God? Reproaches, his talent was taken and given to others, and he was taken and put where the gnashing of teeth is, because the talent was not worked. So, what did I say? God has given you a gift to use not only for yourself but also for those around you. He gave you health and that’s a talent, because others don’t have health.
Cristi Bumbenici: Of course.
Fr. Pimen Vlad: And then you use it, outside your work to support your family, try a little to help others from this. Even a little there, every day, do something for others. Because God has given you health, and He can take it from you. It is part of your cross. After that, everything you do in life, you are capable of, maybe you are placed in a position, you are the mayor… Apart from your family, make an effort, because you have responsibility for that whole community, you answer whether they are well or not, before God. Not only do you respond in front of society, but in front of God. Because you have been given this gift, to be able to lead more people and help them, and you need to multiply this gift.
In a higher office, the same way, the president of a country – everyone curses the president – see where he’s going to end up if he doesn’t do the right thing as president, because he’s responsible for a country. That is, if you are put in a small cauldron, he will be in a large cauldron with temperatures of thousands of degrees, as they say. I mean, speaking in a worldly way, so his suffering will be a thousand times greater. Because life here on earth is short, we see, it’s a year, 10, 50, 100, whatever it is, but life is limited. And we leave for eternity, which does not end. And that depends on how we work. That’s why I said, we ask for God’s help, but we do our best. You have a wheelbarrow, you filled it with earth, you do not sit and just make a cross and look at it, [thinking] that maybe it will leave on its own, no. You say, “Lord help,” grab hold of it and push it. What is human, you do. God intervenes from where you can no longer as a human being, but until there you must. And then, you have to do everything you can for the good of yourself and those around you. It is a duty.
You love the Lord God with all your soul, with all your mind and with all your heart, and your neighbor as yourself. So, first God as I said, connecting with God through confession, Communion, Church, prayer, good deeds, and then he says, the neighbor as ourselves. What we need, the neighbor needs, always share with him as well.
Cristi Bumbenici: You have once again touched on a topic that generates a question, I think it is on everyone’s lips. How effective would a politician be who has faith, a politician with a spiritual education, a politician who is taken to church in the most concrete sense of the word? How important and how useful does he become to the people, to the people he represents?
Fr. Pimen Vlad: So what happens? The man who has a relationship with God becomes clearheaded.
Cristi Bumbenici: Any man.
Fr. Pimen Vlad: Any man, not only a politician. So the moment you go to church, you sit there for an hour, two, three, pray, that’s the grace that descends into the church, you are much more enlightened. When you make a decision, it is much better, that is, others wonder, “How did that go through your head?!” So it’s something that comes from God. Plus, the man who confesses, you see that after coming out of confession, whatever you have done in this life, you feel light, you float, your weight was taken off. You no longer go where you have your function and sit with your worries hanging over your head, with your passions, and when making a decision, making it just for the sake of making it. No, you make it differently, because you confessed and got rid of these worries, you lightened up, your mind is clear. Because you go there, you know that you are going with God and heaven behind you. You make a cross, “Lord enlighten me and give me wisdom to make good decisions.” And then, when this man goes there, when he speaks a word, that word has wisdom, as in Solomon. That is, if he has an opinion, his opinion is always good, of course it has be taken into account by others too.
But it depends on what function it is, let there be there, say, a majority of those who go to church, who confess, who pray, [and] you will see what good decisions they make, because God enlightens them. And without wanting to, they make these good decisions, because God works. Therefore, all this influence, as it were, of the grace of God, would be very great and beneficial for the whole country. Because the laws they make, they flow out upon the people.
Cristi Bumbenici: Yes. It is more than clear how our political class, overnight can become truly useful to the people.
Fr. Pimen Vlad: It’s clear, that. So, as I said, let’s start with confession, with Communion, of course, be baptized Orthodox first, then confession, Communion, participation in Holy Liturgies and do good deeds according to strength, because doing good deeds to the poor, they are praying for you, and then even more the grace of God comes and helps you.
Cristi Bumbenici: What is the most suitable relationship between spouses, during fasting.
Fr. Pimen Vlad: So what happens? The Holy Fathers said that it is good, in order to live the fast better, if it is possible not to live together, that is, not to have [sexual] relations during the fasting period. And to help you with this, you have to fast. You eat well and your body goes crazy and you dream of women. I mean, you can’t do without that. No, you struggle a little. And then, if you eat lighter, lite food, it helps. And to have more tasks then, during the fast, to have occupations.
Don’t stay bored at home watching TV [as] it goes to your head, as they say. And then you go to church more often, confess more often, Commune more often, and God helps you. Not that it can’t be done. You should look around you, there are people who live in monasteries, who live like this all their lives, that is, do not say, “It is impossible.” Or someone said, “Father, if I don’t eat meat, I die.” You do not die, if I lock you in a cellar for a month and give you bread and water every three days, see how good it will be and you will not die.
Just like there was a nobleman and he had a dog. And he fed it only schnitzel, only chickens… At some point, the dog got bored and didn’t want to eat anything. The nobleman said, “Alas, my puppy Azorel, he will die because he is not eating anymore.” And there was a poor servant there, who also ate what was leftover from the nobleman. He didn’t even eat what the dog ate. The nobleman was about to leave for somewhere and said, “What will I do, my Azorel…” The servant said to him:
“He’s not sick, nobleman, let me take care of him. How many days are you going nobleman?”
“Three days.”
“Let me take care of him.”
And he took Azorel and tied him to a pole. And he gave him nothing for three days, just a cup of water that Azores licked there… and that’s it. After three days you can imagine. And then, he called the nobleman. “Nobleman, come hither and see how cheerful Azorel is.” And there was a crab apple tree there. He took and apple and threw it to Azorel and the dog ate it with such relish that the nobleman marveled. “Do you see how Azorel is healed now?”
He was stuffed with all the goodies. Well, that’s what we suffer. And it’s possible that God will bring some troubles, for our gluttony, so that we have to restrain ourselves, because willingly we do not want to fast. And then, if God takes all away, you will fast out of necessity as you won’t have anything to eat. Why do we force God to do this when we can make a law for ourselves?
“No, that’s it! Fasting food, we won’t die.” In the morning, if you can, avoid eating until noon, if you want even more, drink another cup of water and lengthen it, try for as long as you can. Don’t you see that they have come out with all kinds of treatments, water fasts for healing? When you get sick, how do you keep them? Dozens of days with only water to heal? Why don’t you balance things, to have always, let’s say, Wednesdays and Fridays, fasting? So that you can cleanse your body. These four fasts, over a year, keep them, and again do good for your body, and you do not get sick. So one can keep the fast, because it is useful both for the body and the soul. And this way you will see that in the family, it is better, easier. Everyone eats fast food, and then you try, more lovingly, to fill your time… you go and do good according to strength, more often to church, so that you fill up your time. Otherwise, the devil comes in and stirs you up. All of this, depending on the spiritual fathers you have. It’s not a law set in stone. But it would be good like that because it would help Christians to advance better spiritually.
Cristi Bumbenici: Let us not forget that fasting is nothing more than a very important component of our spiritual growth process, without which it is impossible.
Fr. Pimen Vlad: Well, that’s it! And of bodily healing.
Cristi Bumbenici: Implicitly.
Fr. Pimen Vlad: It helps us and we move more towards God. One step.
Cristi Bumbenici: Unfortunately, a topic is reactivated, a topic that is unfolding, we also have it very close to our borders, namely the war. A friend asks us, how do we relate to this situation and, as a small parenthesis, do we go or do we not go in the army?
Fr. Pimen Vlad: First of all, we have to make bows like the Indians had, as that’s pretty much what we have left in our country. What’s going on? Do you see how crazy the world has gone? Everyone cries for peace, but in fact, everyone wants war. And I compared it once, also in a video, and I said; It seems that the world has gone crazy. So, this war, if no one got involved, would have lasted no more than three months and it would have ended. An agreement would have been reached and it would have been over. No one would have died anymore, hundreds of thousands of people, it would have ended. But the interest is not to end it. You see, everyone is like a fire that you light.
When the wood is finished or whatever is there, it goes out. But no, everyone brings… “Oh, I still have a cardboard box, I have a plastic one, I still have an empty bottle, I have a liter of gasoline, I have a stump…” and everyone shouts, “Why doesn’t the fire go out?” But everyone contributes and adds to the fire. And then, maybe that fire is in a room and there is smoke and it suffocates people and they die, yeah? But everyone shouts “We are suffocating!” but they add there. That’s what happens, it’s like their minds are gone, the world has gone crazy.
Here there was, let’s say, a conflict between two brothers, who did not understand each other since, I don’t know what, and they quarreled amongst themselves. And all of them (not to call them the fools of the world), they all woke up, saying, “We will get involved and get the job done.” And they all start to hit right and left, there. For what, to cause general chaos? So, I said from the beginning, you saw. From the first days, Romania does not have to get involved in this at all, we had no business. Our president came out three days ago and said, “This war is ours. The war that Ukraine is waging, it’s waging it to defend us.”
Cristi Bumbenici: From whom?
Fr. Pimen Vlad: I did not understand that! Who are you that they protect you? That is, he says, “This war is ours, we must be totally involved, because they are defending us!” But, I did not understand! Who, us? Did you not see, if we are talking about us, let’s talk about Romanians, yes? The Romanians in Northern Bucovina, now during the war, when the Romanians were totally involved and received all the refugees, they give them salaries that are three times higher than for Romanians. A Romanian child receives 250 lei a month and a Ukrainian receives 3000 or I don’t know how much? I mean, see the difference, how much Romania helped there, and the president of Ukraine comes out and says: ”All Romanians’ rights are annulled. They are no longer allowed to speak Romanian in Ukraine, they are not allowed to do school in Romanian…” He comes with a reward. Seriously, is he defending us? When you see they are taking away all the rights of the Romanians there. Well, if it were us instead of Ukraine and the Russians came in, do you know what Ukraine would do? It would come in and take the rest of Bucovina.
And Dan Puric said one thing that stayed with me, he said “Just think, if this happened to us, no country around us would receive us. Everyone would have closed their borders, and left us be chopped up there.” No one would welcome us. Let us be clear. That is why we resisted as a people, because we never had support around us. And then the only way was to have a good leader and everyone gathered around him. And they all died for one and one for all. That was it, and they were anchored in God. And that is why the earth of our country wherever you dig, up to a few meters, is full of martyrs who did not go to harm others, they defended their land. Likewise, now, we are defending our land. But we don’t have to shoot a bullet beyond. No, we stay at home and if necessary, defend ourselves. We do not go anywhere, we won’t pretend to be great, we who have actually destroyed everything… we have no army, we have nothing. And now corporals have received an order, those 50-year-old people who were in the army before. That’s mockery. No, so we have to anchor ourselves in prayer.
We pray, confess, take Communion, and strive to do good according to our strength. God takes care to cover us. This is our salvation, not going to war. So, the return to God from the small to the great. Then you will see that God protects us. So that’s what I said from the beginning and I keep repeating it. It’s not our fight there, because there are political interests there, at a worldwide level. So let us concern ourselves with our country, like we have always, with our poverty, with our needs, with all of our own. Whoever came to us, we received him, we gave him a piece of bread, but we do not go anywhere, otherwise we will be bitterly sorry if we get involved.
Cristi Bumbenici: Are the Romanian people left somewhere in the shadow of a cone? This is what the question sounds like, I try to fill it in somehow by relating us to two themes: the most important and essential, spiritual, and the other relating to say, our material, social condition.
Fr. Pimen Vlad: I always said. Romania is one of the most beautiful countries in the world.
Cristi Bumbenici: Perhaps the most beautiful.
Fr. Pimen Vlad: The most beautiful, so to speak… but for me, she is the most beautiful. After that, the richest. It has all the resources. Think that for thousands of years, everyone has been stealing from Romania and still the eyes of the great powers are on Romania. Still to steal, from where? Steal from the sea, steal from the mountains, steal from the forests, steal from the land… so, it is stolen.
Cristi Bumbenici: And the air is stolen.
Fr. Pimen Vlad: Yes. And everyone wonders, how is there more? It’s still there and it’s still being stolen. Therefore, God made Romania so rich, that no country has so many riches, everything grows on earth. So, if Romania were left alone, let’s say for 5 years, no one take anything, bring anything. To leave her alone. To produce, to live. Romania would rise as in the time of Vlad Tepes. When he took over, he said to the Turks, “The country is poor and I have nothing to give. Give me a few years to recover.” And he built up this country… and the cities and everything, and the people… all the people worked, he formed a good army, so that they could face the Turks afterwards. So they were left alone for 5 years and the country was restored. Likewise, we have working people, let Romanians return home, let us be left alone and let everyone begin, with the experience they have gathered from the outside, because everyone has worked, done… to contribute to the good of the country. See how our country will rise. We have very capable people all over the world.
Cristi Bumbenici: Of course.
Fr. Pimen Vlad: I had seen an interview, with a child (who was now about 25 years old, he was married), who at 12, the FBI came from America and arrested him, because he had entered into all their accounts, had stolen from NASA, everywhere. And they came, and he said, “They took me with chains on my hands and feet, got me on a plane and took me and locked me up in America.” At 12 years old, that is, what capacity he had to topple them. And even then, they would not have caught him, he had sent an email to a neighbor of his to help him with a job and through him they caught him. It shows what capabilities we have.
So, Romania has capable people, I read… 25 years ago I saw a newspaper, in which it was written that, the first subway to surround all of Los Angeles, the project was made by a Romanian engineer. That is, capable people. Who in this world… I was looking in Israel, a father had shown me, not now… when I came, 30 years ago, and he said to me: Do you see this part of Israel? It’s all made by Romanian workers.” So, hardworking Romanians, capable, in all this world. If they all gather at home, have at least 5 million of them come home now. To compel the State a little, to help them, to assure them, to start a business in Romania, to do something. Do you know how Romania would rise?
Cristi Bumbenici: There is, and I do not want to prolong this question very much… there is also a part of the Romanian people, I think that the small number, who for various reasons, we do not discuss them, still have a rather inappropriate opinion: “Romania is a poor country, in Romania you cannot fulfill any kind of dreams, you miss out…, Romanians are…” I don’t know how. And either some of them leave, or they live like that, in perpetual indifference.
Fr. Pimen Vlad: A lot of work has been done to foster this.
Cristi Bumbenici: It is still being fostered.
Fr. Pimen Vlad: Through the mass media they foster it, that “Romania is like this…,” in the news you see only the negative cases. And foreigners who visit Romania come and say: “I have not seen a country more beautiful than Romania.” So, a lot of foreigners started advertising “How beautiful Romania is!” Those who come from abroad, or some who said: “I had a wrong opinion about Romania…,” even from Ukraine, now… coming to the country, some celebrities from Ukraine who stayed two months in the country and then went to other countries further. And they were talking and saying: “I have no words to say anything about Romania, how beautifully they welcomed me and how nice they treated me, how they held me like in a palm in Romania. The opinion I had before about Romanians, I have completely changed now, living 2-3 months in Romania.”
And look, I also saw an interview with someone. He was an American who came to Romania just after the revolution. He had fallen in love with a Romanian, he came to Romania, stayed for a while, well, in the end they did not understand each other, the Romanian threw him out in the end, and it was in the ’93’s, poor thing, when Romania was trying to get back to the way it was… He said: “I had no place to stay, the Romanians took me into their home, and they kept me in turn and gave me food. I have never seen this philoxenia, the hospitality of the Romanians. What he had on the table, he shared with you.” That’s what he lived in Romania, he stayed, I don’t know, about six years, until he succeeded, I don’t know who helped him with money and he returned to America. And he said: “The Romanians kept me.”
Cristi Bumbenici: Yes. It depends a lot and from what perspective we look at or analyze the situation in Romania, this is very important.
Fr. Pimen Vlad: Now there are some who do not want to work and want to make easy money in Romania, and say: “Oh, well, it doesn’t work, because I don’t know what…,” because it doesn’t work out, let’s go abroad. There is also this option.
Cristi Bumbenici: Alright. How do we attract young people to the church? It’s another question, and I think it’s a constant question of parents who have reached a certain maturity.
Fr. Pimen Vlad: With the lasso.
Cristi Bumbenici: With the lasso? How?
Fr. Pimen Vlad: The Church, we know clearly, never forces anyone to come to church. She just has the church doors open. She never shouts, does not walk like the protestants from gate to gate, fluttering something in front of your eyes. No, the Church stay put, does its duty, and whoever comes, comes. What did the Savior say? “Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me.”
Cristi Bumbenici: Full stop.
Fr. Pimen Vlad: Full stop. So, does not enter. Just stays and knocks on the door. So that’s what the Church does. Stays put, remembers everyone, prays for everyone, but does not force anyone. And then, in order to bring children, young people, further to church, you have to train them as little ones with something like that. Let the parents be an example, in their upbringing to see in the parents beautiful growth, that they do not miss from the church, they confess, the parents Commune, the children see and slowly take them too, and grow in this way. That is, not after you lose the start, you want to bring them to church at 18, when you have not given them a good example until then, it’s hard to bring them then. So he must grow at the same time as you, beautifully. And then, when the child grows up in the Church, he can no longer do without the Church.
Cristi Bumbenici: And this begins, if you will, to make an arc over what we have discussed, from baptism.
Fr. Pimen Vlad: Clearly. You took him beautifully to church, you Commune him, slowly, slowly he gets used to it. Someone told me how pregnant she would to listen to the Paraklesis of the Mother of God all the time or sing it. After the baby was born, she said, the child would not fall asleep if he did not hear the Paraklesis of the Mother of God. So from the belly he got used to the Paraklesis, and now he would not fall asleep unless she put on or sang to him the Paraklesis of the Mother of God.
Cristi Bumbenici: Again, we all, I think, have been, at least once, if not more than once, in the situation where; “Do we turn or not turn the other cheek?” Should we follow the example of the Savior or use an uppercut, a bat or run sometimes? How do we understand the story with the cheek?
Fr. Pimen Vlad: An uncle told me – he worked with a protestant somewhere. And he had discussions about turning [the other cheek] … The protestant said: “It’s different with me. If one slaps me, I quickly return it so that it doesn’t get cold.” That is, somehow we switch it around, because I return [the slap]. You see, with the Jews, that was the law in those days, because they were not in grace. That is why they were simply given the commandments: Do not kill! Look at all the women, that is, hate him as much as you want, but do not kill him. Look at all the women, but don’t fornicate with them. I mean, it wasn’t… The Savior came to us differently and: “He who looks with an unclean thought has fornicated in his heart. He who thinks ill of one has committed murder.” So for us it is at the level of the mind. So let us work at the level of the mind, of the heart. So there is another level for us, God gave us grace and then He also gave us the strength to deal with these things. And how was the question?
Cristi Bumbenici: How do we manage turning the other cheek? Do we turn it or do we not turn it?
Fr. Pimen Vlad: What happens? So, if the Savior told us so…? “If anyone wants to sue you and take away your tunic, let him have your cloak also,” “…whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also….” So that’s the only way. The Savior did the same.
Cristi Bumbenici: Good. This does not mean that we have to accept our condition as a victim permanently.
Fr. Pimen Vlad: No, not as a victim, not as I don’t know what… because God gave us a mind.
Cristi Bumbenici: Of course.
Fr. Pimen Vlad: Let’s avoid certain things, we do not stand there like fools to get slapped until we see stars. He also gave us wisdom. We need discernment in everything. That is, there are situations in which you put yourself in front of someone else to defend him.
Cristi Bumbenici: When your family is threatened.
Fr. Pimen Vlad: As someone said… [when] I was in Sihastria in the olden days, and someone said, “Yes,” (he was a brother who had done military school, he was active), he said: “…if one comes to slap me, I let him give me one more… no problem. But if I see that he wants to give one to my spiritual father, I will eat him for breakfast. Even if they kill me, I become a martyr because I defend the other.”
That’s why they were martyrs, and all those people who died in our country when they came out in front of the Turks or such… because they did not defend themselves, they defended wives, they defended children who were to be slaves… They would come forward and die. So, they fought to the death defending their families. So when you fight to defend your family, your country… then before God you are like a martyr. But it’s not that you’re a big shot and you go and make your own gang… that’s outside of Orthodoxy. No, here we need discernment and as it says… “If you are persecuted in one city, flee to another.” We have to avoid these things. In some situations, he slapped you, at least take your bag and leave. Don’t wait for him to beat you until he doesn’t know what’s going on with him, because you’re staying, you know? No, that is, avoid, leave. Or else maybe you hit him and you hurt him and you even go to jail.
Cristi Bumbenici: Yes father, those were the questions. Thank you for giving very comprehensive answers to our friends who are…
Fr. Pimen Vlad: Let me tell you something else.
Cristi Bumbenici: Please do.
Fr. Pimen Vlad: Something from the venerable Porphyrios. Well, venerable Porphyrios said it as a joke, just this and we conclude with the last subject. He said there was an elder in the desert, he lived somewhere. And he had a young spiritual child who came there, but he was more simple… he didn’t know much, he wasn’t schooled. And someone gave them a donkey. They would stock up with that donkey. And once the spiritual child went with the donkey and in the forest there were waiting for him about 3 hoodlums, as they say, robbers who lived from this, they also had a cave… What they stole they gathered there. And they see him, give him a beating, and take his donkey with all that he brought. The poor man knew that the elder had said to him, “You will turn the other cheek if one gives you a slap.” He comes, miserable, with swollen eyes.
“What happened to you?”
“Look, I met three… they took my donkey too,” he says. “Father, but isn’t there a law that says we should defend ourselves too?”
“Son, there is not. If he takes your coat, give him a shirt. If he gives you a slap, turn…”
“Oh dear, oh dear…”
Well, after all, someone who knew them took pity on them, gave them another donkey. Another month passes, and he again meets those guys. When they see him, they give him a beating, take that donkey. He comes, miserable:
“All right, father, but really in Holy Scripture, … there is not at least one word or two to sustain us?”
Cristi Bumbenici: An exemption, at least.
Fr. Pimen Vlad: He says: “There is something, but it is not in the New Testament, it is for the Jews in the Old Testament, which was before the Savior.”
“And what does it say there?”
“Well, there it says that if one gave you a slap, give him one back. If he pulls out an eye, take one out too.”
“Father, this is for us.”
“Son, wait, that’s the old law.”
“No, leave it as it is father.”
And he goes… and of course someone else had given him another donkey, and the time passed, and those [hooligans] appeared again as they were searching the path there. They see him again and they jump on him. He had been someone in his life before he became a monk. He was about 30 years old, he was well built. And he grabs the three of them and binds them all together and beats them well. And he says, “Bring back all that you have stolen.” When they saw themselves bound and with their eyes swollen, they said, “Yes, we have them in the cave.” They went there, found the other two donkeys, he loaded the donkeys well with everything, and they came, personally, beaten as they were, and brought them back to the elder. And when the elder sees, he says,
“Glory to God!”
“No, Father. Glory to Moses! Because he brought them back,” for this was the law of Moses. “He brought you back the donkeys with all this, because if it were according to the new law, I would be beaten again.”
This, the venerable Porphyrios said… we did not take it as a law, it was from the Old Testament.
Cristi Bumbenici: Wisdom is needed.
Fr. Pimen Vlad: Yes. That’s why discernment and wisdom in everything.
Cristi Bumbenici: Thank you again. We thank [the cat] too…
Fr. Pimen Vlad: Teddy bear sat quietly.
Cristi Bumbenici: Teddy Bear, he was well-behaved… he is a kind of witness of our discussion.
Fr. Pimen Vlad: He is usually well-behaved, but he did not know what it was about, that’s why he wanted to see…
Cristi Bumbenici: Now that he found out, he was well-behaved.
Fr. Pimen Vlad: He is always well-behaved, he is quiet, or, if he hears my voice, he is quiet because he knows that I am here…
Cristi Bumbenici: We thank the Mother of God for allowing this discussion.
Fr. Pimen Vlad: Yes, look, the sun has also come out, and the cold has passed. May the Mother of God help us, keep us safe. To help you all too, to have something [stick in your mind] here. We have a saying, “Leave something on the stave,” if you put anything in a barrel, even if you empty it, there is still something left on the stave. Likewise here, if at least a little bit, so 1% you put it into practice, it means a lot; That you did not pass through the Garden of the Mother of God in vain, something remained and you put it into practice.
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