Orthodoxy in the Diaspora of the 21st Century – H.G. Siluan of Gyula, Fr. Theologos
23 September 2026
What is the relationship between contemporary art and God? Listen to a conversation with Claudiu Dumitrache about art and God—a dialogue that also touches upon the themes of magic and prophecy.
Enjoy!
Fr. Theologos: Glory to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit, now and ever and unto ages of ages. Amen. Through the prayers of our Holy Fathers, O Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on us! Amen. Our dear ones, we are with Claudiu Dumitrache, singer, poet, man of culture, the soul behind “Regal Literar” – a site that tries to bring together more forces, more voices, more people of culture from Romania – who has come to the Holy Mountain and whom we have strongly asked to speak about art, about culture because at this time, I think there is a very, very big problem with the art. And this not only in Romania, but especially beyond the borders of the country.
First of all, Claudiu, what is art? How do you see art? And what purpose does it have?
Claudiu Dumitrache: It’s complex, we can speak about art in various ways. Andrei Tarkovsky: “The raison d’être of art is a prayer.”
Fr. T.: That is right.
C.D.: And then, what is outside of prayer practically cannot be anything but an intellectual analysis – he also says that.
Fr. T.: Tarkovsky again.
C.D.: It can only be a brilliant intellectual analysis. That is, it should help to promote the evangelical message. Meaning the virtues, but they cannot be worked on artistically in this way in communion which is liturgical, meaning the artistic act must be liturgical…
Fr. T.: Yes. So this means that if God disappears, art also disappears.
C.D.: Absolutely. Yes, that makes no sense. That is what art is.
Fr. T.: Yes. Yes. Art is a form of expression of religion, a form of ascent toward God, and we see that indeed in the West, at this moment, art is a shock or something of that sort. I mean it doesn’t have… It is true that I still see that certain people – I’m not speaking from within Orthodoxy – but certain people in the West or elsewhere have certain flashes of insight.
That is, God gives them something, but they cannot manage it or they don’t know how… Can you talk a little more about this topic? What does an artist experience, or what drives an artist to create?
C.D.: Yes, as you said, it is a shock. That is, they reduce themselves to this shock, to that three‑minute moment – a song – four, in which their feelings are practically validated. I do not know what I can say about this way in which…
Fr. T.: What does an artist experience?
C.D.: That is the thing, artists see art in different ways. The artist who submits to consumer demands, and then the world considers them an artist because they follow those procedures. I mean, you went to a music school, you are like this, and you are an artist. What I’m saying is that I don’t believe technique makes you an artist.
Fr. T.: Obviously.
C.D.: It’s more than that.
Fr. T.: That is how it is, and I believe these artists, so to speak, do not last over time. Or do they?
C.D.: Some last because they are helped.
Fr. T.: I understand.
C.D.: We have so many examples that shouldn’t be and yet they are, examples where passions are presented as virtues and where we all know what is happening.
Fr. T.: I think one of the driving forces that determines art is love.
C.D.: Yes…
Fr. T.: True love, if we are talking about art that leads to God, or distorted love that leads elsewhere.
C.D.: Well, the thing is that, in fact, everyone is looking for God, but they do not know what this God is, because He is presented… as energy, as nature, meaning we absolutize something else – the stars…
Fr. T.: Or the person of the opposite sex.
C.D.: Yes, yes, yes, based on a natural revelation, but the supernatural one does not come….
Fr. T.: From God.
C.D.: Because neither do we… I do not know. As for that, I do not get involved in why it does not come.
Fr. T.: Why does it not come? I believe it is due to the fact that the passions are very strong. I believe that the artist is a very, very strong person, with a very great capacity for love, but the passions direct this capacity for love in another direction and these intense experiences, I think, draw in the fans, the listeners of that artist, or the readers of that artist. Because they also want to live to the fullest, they also want paradise, but they don’t know what this paradise looks like and they don’t know where to look for it.
C.D.: Yes, they counterfeit it there for a few minutes and they do it like that until God wills otherwise.
Fr. T.: Exactly.
C.D.: Until He allows it. Yes, and that is happening now, meaning it is already everywhere, it is no longer like it was, let’s say, when I started singing, when I was 12-13 years old. It wasn’t such madness. I grew up along with this senseless trend, without any meaning. I mean, you see! I used to watch Disney Channel when I was little. I saw that they presented some beautiful songs about love, communion, even if they were not in the Truth, they were an amplification of the good.
Fr. T.: The desire for communion, for good, yes.
C.D.: Later on, I see that those artists also became satanists, they actually became…
Fr. T.: Indeed, how do you see it? Because I understood that now at the Grammys, Sam Smith was awarded, and the man is openly a satanist, may Good God forbid.
C.D.: Yes, he does not know that he is a satanist, nor do people really…
Fr. T.: I think they do not realize what it means…
C.D.: They do not realize what is happening and where it is heading and what this thing means. I mean, in whose presence all these things are taking place.
Fr. T.: I think they are some confused, poor souls, and they seek shock at any cost, and they have an acute lack of identity and are addicted to adrenaline, addicted to dopamine, to things like that…
C.D.: Of course. A refuge in anything, in this shock.
Fr. T.: In shock.
C.D.: Exactly in this shock is the refuge: it validates you that you are not alone, you are with someone else. There is also Sam Smith, a great artist, let’s say. Then, “look where I am validated.” I agree with what he does and Ionuț agrees and so does Mihai, who went to the conservatory, and we are artists and we acknowledge that, and everything is fine.
Precisely because of this, many who nevertheless have an education or have more or less done something, who have achieved something in the past, among our artists perhaps from Romania… Yes, but now they have come to compromise themselves, that is, to agree with certain things…
Fr. T.: Doesn’t this show a lack of a living God within them? I mean, because they actually feel alone. When a person is with God, they do not feel alone and they do not feel alone and insecure.
C.D.: Yes, that is also it, that is the essence. Although there could have been a balance through this obedience to parents.
Fr. T.: Yes, to those who came before.
C.D.: To the elders. I mean, “I won’t do that because I’m ashamed, it’s not possible.” And yet, you would keep your balance.
Now this balance no longer exists. That is, the connection with the living and personal God is lost, as well as with tradition, with values…
Fr. T.: And then they are leaves blown by the wind… Yes, Good God forbid! It is a destructive civilization, which in fact destroys everything that has been accumulated or almost everything that has been accumulated in culture and tries to create a pseudo‑culture today. That is, everything that was previously discovered is being denied, so to speak.
C.D.: Yes, it comes down to a shock.
Fr. T.: To a shock, a rush of dopamine. I think it’s about the human need for miracle. Man wants a miracle, and because he doesn’t find a miracle in the wonderful God within himself, he finds this pseudo-miracle which is just a shock, a chemical reaction.
C.D.: A chemical reaction in the end, yes.
Fr. T.: What do you think about… I don’t know if you know, at this point music is being made by artificial intelligence, and lyrics by artificial intelligence, and so on. I had actually seen some phenomenal lyrics, but without meaning.
C.D.: You realize, now it’s no longer about what a single person or a small group knows. All the history of the world, all the passion of the world from all the years recorded there in books is intensified in all its subtleties in order to give a person what they desire: sentimentality or drama or whatever they want.
Fr. T.: Yes, but it doesn’t lead a person anywhere.
C.D.: Well, it doesn’t lead them, but it keeps them there, shut in, trapped.
Fr. T.: Ah, so we’re talking about an art that actually imprisons a person, not one that elevates them, not one that sets them free.
C.D.: Of course. It can be, it can also be something…
Fr. T.: Catharsis.
C.D.: Yes, it can be, but it depends on how the person sees it and on God, if He wants to reveal things to them.
Fr. T.: If He helps them.
C.D.: Yes.
Fr. T.: Because I see that young people are still being helped today, but very little and by very little music. Meaning very little art helps young people.
Usually, they pin young people down – correct me, I hope I am wrong – but that is how I see it, that they keep young people focused on the flesh, on the earthly level.
C.D.: No, that’s exactly how it is. This is what is promoted: the image. Image on rhythm. Have you noticed? It is this rhythm…
Fr. T.: Yes, Mother of God… rhythm without anything.
C.D.: It makes you go beyond yourself, but not in a good way… in fact, it is an alternative reality in which you are as you want to be or as the song tells you to be and as you like to be.
Fr. T.: Ah, so a world you escape into.
C.D.: And it’s a drug.
Fr. T.: A type of drug.
C.D.: This rhythm especially, where they are repeated…
Fr. T.: Lord, Mother of God!
C.D.: All these things place us in another world where everything is in agreement with us, we are extraordinary and those next to us are extraordinary, we’re all good. But what kind of goodness is this?
Fr. T.: Yes, I think it is illusory and especially, the moment you wake up to reality, you react very badly because you are used to that pseudo-heaven and you become very violent in the real world.
C.D.: Yes, that’s it, they can no longer bear reality and they need a drug – even smoking and music. It’s a drug.
Fr. T.: Obviously.
C.D.: It can be more harmful because people are drugged by music, meaning they’ve become dependent on, for example, driving the car and hearing that rhythm…
Fr. T.: Mother of God! Yes, go on. Because I’ve had experience with this.
C.D.: Exactly, and I’m terrified to ride with someone in the car and listen to this music. I can’t, I just can’t anymore… Stop, please, I’ll take something else, I’ll get there on my own. I can’t, it disturbs me.
I actually hosted a festival a few months ago. For 20-something hours I hosted a rock festival.
Fr. T.: Glory to God!
C.D.: So, rock, and there was a student who was singing that hard rock, and I was sitting there watching how my heart was pounding, how that whole building was echoing, how it was entering into me, and I wasn’t enjoying anything, I mean it was just a shock.
Fr. T.: A state of excitement…
C.D.: Yes, only for me it is not even pleasure anymore. I do not know how this could be pleasure. I mean you must have a certain feeling. I think it must be very bad.
Fr. T.: Not only that. Let me tell you what happens with rock – I listened to rock in the past, I mean I listened to all genres. It’s about a great deal of frustration, a frustration related to today’s unjust reality, and these artists want to fix things, they have a very great capacity for love, they want to solve it, they don’t find a solution because the solution is Christ, they become very violent and then they express themselves in music and/or they self-annihilate – alcohol, drugs…
C.D.: Self-annihilation, that’s it. Yes, they deceive themselves and if no one intervenes to shake them up a little…
Fr. T.: A spiritual father. Either a spiritual father as a priest, or a spiritual father as a parent…
C.D.: Yes, a spiritual person.
Fr. T.: Exactly, that’s what I mean.
C.D.: So, if they are not shaken, if they are not humbled, if nothing humbles them, they remain there.
Fr. T.: Yes, I know…
C.D.: We’ve just had these festivals here. Children died from drugs.
Fr. T.: I heard two at Untold or I do not know where, I don’t follow it.
C.D.: Yes, in Bucharest, actually. I even wrote an article. There was a nice title, with images, images with confetti for I don’t know what, and I said that this is exactly it: it sends you into an imaginary world and you can even die in it. I mean you die in the imaginary world, that is where you meet your end.
Fr. T.: Yes, and think about the fact that if you die, hell awaits you, because the imaginary world does not actually exist.
C.D.: Exactly.
Fr. T.: And in fact, Orthodoxy prepares you for the real, Orthodoxy prepares you to be ready for reality, for the confrontation with eternal reality. That is Orthodoxy.
Because of this, related to this, you see, psaltic music does not try to dominate you, to imprison you; psaltic music allows you to pray. It is a vertical music that lets you rise; it does not overwhelm you and is only a kind of tool, a kind of instrument with which you can pray to the maximum.
Whereas in general today, music, but not only music, sometimes art as well, especially films, for example…I saw some trailers, Mother of God, may the Good and Holy God protect us! I mean, I understood nothing from that trailer except shock, a continuous shock.
C.D.: That is what it actually is, it’s a shock. Then, the movie itself can be very bad.
Fr. T.: Really? I don’t know, I mean I don’t watch them, but I’ve seen a few trailers…
C.D.: I watch movies and everything, and I see. Everything has died.
Fr. T.: It no longer resembles Tarkovsky or anything like that.
C.D.: No, everything has died. There is only one series I liked, it’s on Netflix, a good series, it is prophetic, so to speak: Black Mirror.
Fr. T.: I’ve heard of it.
C.D.: So, it’s somewhat prophetic, it shows pretty much everything that could happen in the next few years or what is already happening…
Fr. T.: But dystopian, right?
C.D.: Yes, at the technological level, meaning this transhumanism, how far are we going to go and how is it going to influence us? I mean, it’s worth following; in a way it’s entertainment for some who see only that, entertainment, but it is also very subtle, it is morally instructive for those who…
Fr. T.: Yes, this is the problem, and in a certain area of music as well, because, you see, music and art in general address emotion, so it is the shadow of God on earth, as I once said. So it addresses the parts of the soul that are not rational, that is, the desiring part and the irascible part. Black Mirror, I haven’t watched it, but I know from music, indeed, this music that addresses the irascible part, dystopian music, has a very strong power of attraction. Why? Because you say, yes, he’s right, the rocker is right. Good, all respect to rockers, I really understand them.
C.D.: Or to the rappers.
Fr. T.: Yes, all respect to the rappers. We send our greetings to Cedry2k and to Dragonul, even if Dragonul, well… I love Dragonul very much, but I ask him to use cleaner language. See? Rockers, rappers, and so on, they attract a lot because they speak well.
C.D.: They present the truth.
Fr. T.: Yes, they present the truth. The big problem is that they do not present the solution, which is Christ, and because of that people fall into depression and so on. Of course, in parentheses, for Cedry2K and Dragonul who are doing a very… mission work, I don’t listen to them very much, but I know them as personalities.
C.D.: Yes, I watch too, I have noticed and I have seen.
Fr. T.: That’s what I’m saying – the problem is that the solution is not being offered.
C.D.: It’s not concretely offered, because they talk about the Holy Fathers.
Fr. T.: That is what they talk about, but they talk especially in the West, there are these brilliant people who, following some great dramas they have lived through, say certain truths, but as I was saying, they do not offer the solution.
C.D.: Not there, it’s far there, it really is far. There, only if I don’t know…
Fr. T.: A momentary enlightenment or something…
C.D.: You can find out very little from Jordan Peterson and from there you can learn a few things so that you get a little closer to where you need to be, but otherwise I don’t know how…
Fr. T.: It’s very far, yes.
C.D.: Yes, that’s the idea. I don’t know how it happens there.
Fr. T.: Yes, spiritual discernment is needed.
C.D.: Where are they going to get it from? Because people have nowhere left to get it from, that’s the point!
Fr. T.: Yes, but you see that God is continually reconfiguring this entire universe in order to bring people closer to Him, and I’m thinking now that if there appeared… I don’t know why I’m giving this example, it shocked me when I heard it. So I don’t listen to, I don’t like Megadeth, and I acknowledge that Mustaine is a genius, but I don’t like his voice, nor his aggressiveness in music. It’s not my kind of thing. But what shocked me is that he was in Metallica, he was kicked out because of drug addiction, because he was very arrogant. The man repented, he had also been involved with witchcraft and so on. He repented. Of course, let’s be clear, he is not Orthodox, do not take him as an example.
Something phenomenal happened – so after he went through all that rehabilitation to escape addictions, recovery, it was his first concert, if I’m not mistaken, and then in a sacrifice of sound, of lights, of explosions, he appeared on stage and everyone was wildly excited, waiting for the concert to begin. And he stops, everything goes dark, everyone looks puzzled, wondering what this man wants now, and in that somewhat embarrassing silence that prevailed, he said: “I know that many of you are atheists, I know that many of you do not believe that hell exists. I, however, have just come back from there.” And you see this man… I mean, I was thinking then, because this was an explosion for me when I heard it, after many years when I had already given up all that, and even before I didn’t listen, I wasn’t a fan, so to speak.
I was thinking: well, if a monk from the Holy Mountain, a priest, had gone into that stadium with hundreds of thousands of people and had started to say what? Well, they would have beaten him.
C.D.: You realize…
Fr. T.: Whereas God spoke through the mouth of this sinner – all respect to him at this point – and woke those people up. And I believe that God, through all sorts of such events, leaves a word like this that sows seeds.
The great temptation is that, the moment you see Mustaine or others making such a gesture that is valid, you then take everything from them, and that is the temptation. There must be discernment, and because of this, in general, we do not promote these people, because then people take everything from them.
C.D.: Discernment is needed.
Fr. T.: Discernment. Yes.
C.D.: Perhaps only a supernatural revelation. Then you can say that something is happening, but otherwise… Fr.
T.: Yes, but I want to say this especially for those of us who have a tendency to judge people. We never judge people, we always judge trends, meaning ideologies, and we say that this one or that one is not good as an ideology, but people never, never. Don’t you think that music or, say, books and so on cover certain needs of certain characters?
C.D.: Oh yes, of course they do, but they are still delusions.
Fr. T.: Delusions, obviously.
C.D.: Because there is no discernment.
Fr. T.: Up to a certain point, yes.
C.D.: Now, the ideology of reading.
Fr. T.: Oh, really?
C.D.: Yes. The entire internet is full of “let’s read”, “join such-and-such club”, “come on, let’s read”, “look, the best publishing house”.
Fr. T.: However, that is good… up to a certain point.
C.D.: It’s good. I mean the intention.
Fr. T.: The intention, yes, yes.
C.D.: Saint Joseph of Vatopedi – “I see your good intention, but I also see your carelessness.”
Fr. T.: Yes, exactly.
C.D.: And here there is no discernment, because people read everything, and there you have New York Times bestseller literature, I don’t know what… whatever I dreamed last night I write now, someone writes a review for me and oh, read it!
Fr. T.: The shock…
C.D.: The shock, yes. It’s number one, read it because it gives you… And this is precisely the problem, that they go there and enter into the esoteric.
Fr. T.: I understand…
C.D.: That is, this literature enters into the esoteric. That is the biggest problem.
Fr. T.: God forbid!
C.D.: The authors are for the most part not Orthodox, and even if they are Romanians, they are actually numerologists, tarot readers, personal development coaches who tell you how to reconfigure this universe so it will give you everything you desire, how to work with energies…
Fr. T.: God forbid!
C.D.: Exactly, and all this… a magic, a magic that is presented very nicely as being white magic.
Fr. T.: Really?
C.D.: Yes, as being white magic, or that we are some kind of gods, we must be… this universe has been given to us to be ours, come on, let’s see how you make God give you what you desire.
Fr. T.: “If God still exists.”
C.D.: Exactly. This is the current ideology, meaning that even if people read various books, there are also others who read science fiction. I don’t know how it is with science fiction because it doesn’t really get me… I don’t know why it doesn’t…
Fr. T.: Yes, I have read a lot of science fiction. Let me tell you what happens there. It is a very interesting and very dangerous phenomenon. On the one hand, science fiction offers the greatest freedom of expression, the greatest. Why? Because you say that something happened on some unknown planet, and that the characters – aliens – are such that you can convey your idea through them, and you construct the technology in such a way that you can convey your idea through it.
But the best-known, greatest, most important science fiction books or films are not those that promote technology, but those that deal with human passions and, especially, with deification. So “Dune”, for example, by Frank Herbert, deals with deification, but a false deification, meaning the main character there is the Messiah, and in that book, there are many Islamic ideas. So, Frank Herbert made a kind of very dangerous syncretism, moreover, in which he presents a messiah, of course, on a planet and so on, and what is phenomenal in these science-fiction works is that the good side always wins– how? By force!
So if you look at Star Wars – I don’t know if you have seen it –
C.D.: I don’t remember.
Fr. T.: It doesn’t matter, so there are two camps: the good camp, the evil camp. The good camp are those who have the stronger lasers. Whereas Christ says that the good camp are those who are more humble, gentler, more loving. While, as I was saying, in science-fiction even the good ones are those who beat more, shoot stronger and more with lasers, and, by the way, in Star Wars as in Dune and in other works, the occult appears.
That is, those who have the guns, those who have the technology are not the most powerful, but are the lowest. Those who are stronger than them are the famous Jedi knights and the occultists who have force and so on… So you see that it is still acknowledged that the ultimate level of art is the spiritual level – it’s very distorted, very dangerous, and there is a great deal of violence hidden in it. Conflict, war.
C.D.: Well, that’s it. Inevitably it ends up in war regardless of virtues, no matter how good we might be in the religion of the green tree.
Fr. T.: Exactly. Only Christ brings us peace! Another question: how do you see journalism? By the way, since you’re also a journalist, so to speak. The debate.
C.D.: I haven’t really been a journalist… I started like that out of necessity. The necessity meaning my need to write, to comment, to criticize.
Fr. T.: Yes, yes… You are also a metalhead, but on another level and with another form of expression, a rocker.
C.D.: Yes, journalism is shameful. Meaning journalists should be ashamed because there are young people who go into journalism, who certainly learn the procedures and all that, but then, you have nowhere to get a serious job.
Fr. T.: Really?
C.D.: Yes, nobody hires you for anything serious. You have to do tabloid stuff or maybe not tabloid, but concrete disinformation, outright disinformation.
Fr. T.: Really? Seriously?
C.D.: Of course. I mean, disinformation is very concrete – you have to come here and write anything, wow, shocking…
Fr. T.: For likes, for traffic…
C.D.: For anything, yes. Disinformation – we are referring to things that misinform and frighten people and create fear, or if grandma is watching TV and sees what happened and that presenter they see there, in every news report says: “Ladies and gentlemen, extraordinary, absolutely, fascinating.”
Fr. T.: “Shocking news”…
C.D.: I just can’t stand it when I hear this. Change the channel! I mean Romania TV, Antena 3 – these news channels, in general. They do this “wow” propaganda: “come to us, we’ll give you the information.” What do they actually give them? They give them the same thing, fear, dopamine: “Oh, someone died, he hit him in the head with an axe, he cut her open, I don’t know what he did to her, oh my, what he did, the earthquake, did you see what happened?”
And this becomes a way of life because it turns into a drug. If at some point you stop receiving it and you have peace and quiet, you become restless because you’re not getting it anymore.
Fr. T.: Yes, yes. Withdrawal.
C.D.: I mean, you’re drugged by this – by news, by television – here, the elderly in particular, but also the young people, although they watch YouTube afterwards, they sit and watch YouTube. And there you get other craziness with all the vloggers and all the make-up artists, I don’t know, video commentators, like it was at Eurovision – “look how beautiful that one was” or “look, what’s this, I don’t like it.”
Although that might be something good, but their eye that sees poorly says it is something bad and then, everyone comes and says too “yes, it is like you, because we like you, if you don’t like that one either, we don’t like that one either”.
Fr. T.: I understand… the halo effect of the celebrity. Meaning that if the celebrity says something, you repeat after them.
C.D.: The celebrity… They are not celebrities, they are actually some vloggers who are liked because of the way they look or… There’s nothing rational underlying what they’re doing there.
Fr. T.: It’s emotional.
C.D.: Yes, emotional, and it’s their refuge because they validate each other. “Bravo, yes, keep doing that.” Okay, we were talking about journalism.
Journalism no longer has any meaning. If we want correct information, I don’t know where you can get it from.
Fr. T.: There are very few, right?
C.D.: You can go on a government website, but even those… The Union of Professional Journalists, for example. We can go there…
Well, now I’m talking because…
Fr. T.: You’re there…
C.D.: Yes, okay, we can still go there because the information is verified. Or to Radio Romania, although there a madness has started as well, I mean the young people have started, because young journalists are coming in, but they come precisely from this pseudo‑cultural environment, they bring the avant‑garde, they take tradition, they throw it away, and everything is already changing.
I mean all the television stations have started to change. Because young people are coming who are not formed and who see everything in a Western way. And then they come and (say) “ah, what is this painting like?” You’ve seen it. What is this painting with two brushstrokes that costs 3 million euros trying to say, when in fact it’s nothing. But in fact, here, I see 100,000 things there and we sit and comment and people listen and the price of the painting goes up and everything is fine.
Fr. T.: So, it’s a boulder that’s rolling downhill somewhere.
C.D.: Yes, yes. And they really consider themselves artists there and art critics, can you imagine, and people listen and say yes, that’s how it is.
Fr. T.: Well, and what are you left with?
C.D.: But there is nothing well‑founded, meaning they have no culture, no understanding of art, they have nothing within themselves. You are left with nothing, obviously. It is just an illusion.
Fr. T.: And then how can one have a cultural debate or a debate on a certain topic? I think it is rather difficult nowadays for debates to exist.
C.D.: They still exist, they still exist, there are also a few clubs online in Romania where debates are held. I don’t know how honest they are, because there are different characters who have interests – that is, their own interests, those of their religion, of where they come from…
Fr. T.: So, is this visible?
C.D.: Yes, it is clearly visible.
Such a debate…? I sometimes watch TVR, they do those shows with…
Fr. T.: I don’t know, I don’t watch it.
C.D.: On TVR there are some programs where, what is the topic: abortion or the abortion law or others. And there it is very clear that the whole thing is political.
Fr. T.: Oh, really?
C.D.: Yes. Meaning the whole thing is designed in such a way that even the presenter moderates in that manner…
Fr. T.: So that a certain outcome comes out…
C.D.: For it to turn out exactly as it is supposed to, what we want or what the state wants, what someone wants. They always put those who shouldn’t be there to give the verdict. That is the problem, and this is how people fall into nonsense and discernment no longer exists, because if I see a writer who was propelled by I don’t know whom and I don’t know what, and he wrote I don’t know what – a swan that is spinning around, and that image remained, which might be a bit philosophical, but what more can it be? Oh my!
Fr. T.: Just a form without content, right?
C.D.: Exactly, exactly. They have no essence.
Fr. T.: So, it seems that at this time, Orthodoxy is more than ever a generator of balance, a generator of calm, of peace.
C.D.: Yes, of course it is, naturally. Only that young people do not have confidence, and in fact they do not know why they don’t have confidence.
I had nothing to do with Orthodoxy; I was into numerology, occultism, music, yes, all that. Precisely from there came what came, and I understood that in fact everything I was doing was vanity, that in fact such a thing does not really exist, that in fact I am created. If I am created, it means that I do not have power, so I cannot command anything to anyone. I mean, to command the stars, “Make a car come to me tomorrow” – as I was…
Fr. T.: By the way, astrology is wreaking havoc at this time, if I’m not mistaken.
C.D.: Yes, all these pseudo-sciences do. People look for science mixed with the esoteric, and then they combine them, and you can imagine…
Fr. T.: You have seen that it is very dangerous.
C.D.: It is very dangerous, yes. I mean, I know cases where people die, where people argue, break up…
Fr. T.: Because of astrology? Seriously?
C.D.: Yes, you’re not my zodiac sign, the ascendant is like this. See why…?
Fr. T.: So, it is not my passions or that I do not know how to treat you, but that it’s not the right zodiac sign, right?
C.D.: Exactly.
Fr. T.: God forbid!
C.D.: Or if I am, I don’t know… I like arguing, let’s say, and my zodiac sign tells me that I am quarrelsome, okay, and then my partner comes and tells me: “I don’t want to stay with you anymore because you are quarrelsome.” “Well, that’s how I am; if you want me, fine, if not, that’s how my zodiac sign is.” And then I can no longer change.
Fr. T.: God forbid! So how is that person supposed to be healed?
C.D.: There is no such thing as me changing anymore.
Fr. T.: Seriously?
C.D.: That’s what my zodiac sign tells me.
Fr. T.: Mother of God! So some balls of fire, of gas, which are stars from I don’t know how many billions of light years away, are telling me what to do?!
C.D.: Exactly. That is natural revelation, meaning we realize that we are created, that there is a meaning, but we confuse things, we personify them even though we need the true Person.
Fr. T.: The true One, Christ.
C.D.: Triune and almighty, and even our reason, because it is something absolute.
Fr. T.: That is right.
C.D.: It is a fullness.
Fr. T.: Yes, man is absolute, but not by himself, rather through the grace of God. We need God, we need God.
How do you see the future?
C.D.: Well, I don’t know, father, because I also read one thing or another, I also see prophecies… Are they all prophesied? I mean, how should I see them? Should I see them as prophesied or should I believe that something can still be done? Because, as I see it, it’s a disaster, I mean there will be chaos. I don’t know when, but there will be chaos.
Fr. T.: Yes…
C.D.: I mean everything will be… the emphasis will be placed very strongly on this matter of technology, and people will believe that fulfillment is found through this technology, including the prolongation of life and all things.
Fr. T.: Meaning technology is salvific…
C.D.: Yes, yes, yes.
Fr. T.: It is a pseudo-god.
C.D.: No, they don’t see it that way either. So they do not see it that way, but I do not know why they still do it. I mean, they keep seeking pleasure and fulfillment there, even though they know it is not there.
Fr. T.: Because they have no other solution. They cannot accept that they were wrong.
C.D.: They cannot accept themselves.
Fr. T.: Yes, they can’t accept themselves, they cannot accept that they were wrong, they keep going in that direction – that’s how they are accustomed, because passion means being habituated to sin. They are enslaved by their passions and do not have the strength to get out because they have no reason to get out.
Because they do not have God! That is, they do not see God. They do not have the beauty of Heaven.
C.D.: And what about the prophecies?
Fr. T.: The prophecies? The prophecies depend on us, nonetheless! They depend on us, and you should know that I am optimistic when it comes to individuals. So one thing is the planetary vision, where there is chaos, and another thing is the person. Orthodoxy has always been a personal solution, a personal therapeutic solution. I mean you, me, him, him and the wild boar in the back that can be heard, I do not know where… it must be a wild boar, because it is quite big.
C.D.: Yes, it sounds quite heavy.
Fr. T.: Exactly. It won’t eat us and if it does eat us, we die in the Holy Mountain, it’s not a problem, it is a blessing. So, as I was saying, Orthodoxy is a personal solution because, in general, the world is in the hands of the devil. As the devil said then at the temptation of the Savior – “I will give you all this authority and their glory for it has been delivered to me…” Certainly, we wish for everyone to be saved. That will not happen. Meaning it is not a mass phenomenon. It would be good if it were! Because of this, we must focus on ourselves, because healing is personal.
If we look – speaking of artists – at others, indeed, despair can seize us and we end up on the heights of despair, as a despairing man – Cioran – used to say. Poor man, woe to him, may Good God help him, may He forgive him…
C.D.: But you should know, father, that he had the knowledge.
Fr. T.: He was brilliant…
C.D.: He had all the necessary knowledge.
Fr. T.: Yes, but he went on other paths…
C.D.: And that is precisely it, that he did not accept himself.
Fr. T.: Yes, he ran away from himself. So that is what it is about, and the topic of prophecies is a dangerous topic because if you concern yourself too much with prophecies – and especially since we on the Holy Mountain know a million prophecies and we do not say them publicly precisely for this reason, because people focus on prophecies, they forget about personal healing, they forget about personal perfection, and then the prophecies indeed begin to be fulfilled.
C.D.: Yes! Know that it is very true!
Fr. T.: Thank you very much!
C.D.: This is what I tell you that I know, it is empirical.
Fr. T.: If a person focuses on their perfection, on their spiritual struggle as much as they can, the prophecies will not be fulfilled or, better said, they will be postponed.
If a person, however, focuses on prophecies, they will be fulfilled, but in a way that the person who focuses on them does not want.
C.D.: And can the prophecies be true? Meaning, can they be biblical? Can they be spiritual?
Fr. T.: Yes, obviously, they can be spiritual from the saints, they can be totally some terrible nonsense and some terrible deceptions, or the most dangerous ones are the prophecies of the Holy Fathers interpreted by some random nobodies, may the Good God forgive me, according to their interests and their exaltations…
C.D.: According to the human mind.
Fr. T.: Yes, like “now it’s surely being fulfilled because I know.” And I tell him, “Brother, it’s not now, because we on the Holy Mountain follow this, we monitor it.” “No, father, because I know”. “How do you know?” “I just know.” And you could fire a cannon and he still knows… Well, okay, you humble yourself.
C.D.: It’s a strange thing.
Fr. T.: It is stubbornness in exaltation. You know, like that dopamine, and they cannot get out of there…
C.D.: It is a foolish pride.
Fr. T.: Yes, yes, yes. It’s demonic…
C.D.: It’s clear that it is devised… we know by whom it is devised…
Fr. T.: By the enemy, yes.
C.D.: We know whose work it all is, but they must realize that it is bad to come and take the fruit, let’s say…
Fr. T.: Of the Holy Fathers.
C.D.: To take the writing of a, I don’t know… To take the menu of a restaurant, rewrite it yourself and think that you will have the same customers and that they will pay you the same if you put milk instead of honey and fish instead of…
Fr. T.: Yes… On the other hand, those with prophecies say that we must monitor. Yes, okay, we must monitor, but the moment you see that you are losing Christ, you stop the monitoring. The moment you see that you are getting troubled, you stop, and for this reason God gave prophecies only to saints and not to just anyone, because these things bring disturbance.
So you see, if we now were to start taking one by one all these satanic things in art and so on, well, we would be disturbed, meaning we would bang our heads against all the walls. Do you understand? For this reason, the Church says: yes, okay, they exist, keep an eye on them, but get out of there, focus on the good! Focus on the good and the good will grow! If you focus on evil, evil will grow!
C.D.: Yes, but they don’t think they are doing evil.
Fr. T.: Yes, they don’t think so.
C.D.: They think they are focusing on something good.
Fr. T.: Yes, yes, they want to change the world.
C.D.: Exactly.
Fr. T.: Brethren, you are not going to change it, we are not going to change the world! Fine, say it once, but if you see that you are getting troubled, leave it! Or if you see that you are not being listened to, leave it, calm down!
C.D.: You’ve seen it! Exactly what you are saying – mistaken interpretation with 666…
Fr. T.: Mother of God!
C.D.: Well, that’s it! They focus on these things and lose the essence and go there, and what they say is not even correct, I mean they go…
Fr. T.: There is the antichrist army, anti‑antichrist. So they say “don’t go there, don’t go there…”. I do not need that, I see that it is not good, tell me where to go, “go this way or go down.” I mean, it is much more normal, much gentler, much more peace-making, much more loving to say: “dear, this is the way, go ahead with God!” Rather than saying: “hey, there is an abyss there, watch out, the rock is falling on us”. Do you understand? So, the moment you say these things, you generate that shock, and the person is in constant agitation, and there is no such peace. Christ came to bring peace.
C.D.: A message for…
Fr. T.: Yes, at the end, a message.
C.D.: No. At the end. But now, in between. I have a friend, and I told him I was coming here, and he wants to know why he should stop doing tarot.
Fr. T.: Why should he stop doing tarot?
C.D.: Yes, tarot, and ever since he was little, he has visions. He sees that someone is going to die, and that is what happens. And as I was saying: if you believe a prophecy and you don’t annul it and you don’t make the sign of the cross against it…
Fr. T.: These things are super-demonic, and I will say why. Because the devil, being a spirit, moves very quickly and knows the moment someone dies.
C.D.: Exactly.
Fr. T.: But if a priest comes, for example, he can say to the one who does tarot, the priest can say – I know of a case. There was someone who was deceived, also with demonic things and so on, and he went to a very spiritual priest from the Holy Mountain and said to him: “but I have visions and all that”. The priest said: “Man, you are with the devil”. “I’m not, father! How can this be? With tarot, I mean, I pray, with candles, nicely…”
And what did he do? He said to him: “Look, here’s the deal. I’m going to think of something and you have to guess it!” “Yes, father, of course, no problem!
This is nothing for me…” And at that moment the priest blessed God and cursed the devil in his mind and said, “Be silent!” And at that moment, the man in front of him couldn’t utter a word. And he says: “What am I thinking of?” and continuously, in his mind, he was cursing the devil. And the other one froze: “I don’t know!”
Here! Do you understand? And you must know, I now remember a phenomenal case on this topic, by the way, that there was a family, I think from Scotland, where, God forbid, terrible things happen regarding witchcraft and so on. And indeed, there was tarot and all these things involved. And the wife became a Christian, she eventually became Orthodox, and the moment she became normal, then she really did see some demons and saw some things and so on, and she was terrified. They had to lock her in the house so she wouldn’t go outside. And there is a whole story about how we managed to send her a prayer rope so she could pray with “Lord Jesus” in order to escape these demonic influences. And Klaus Kenneth, whom I met personally, he was saying— and on the website chilieathonita.ro we have two interviews with Klaus Kenneth— in which he says that he became demonized through yoga, let alone through tarot and so on. I mean, we are talking about some very, very dangerous things.
C.D.: He does not believe it. He believes he is doing something good, that it is his gift.
Fr. T.: Yes, why? Because it seems that way at the beginning.
C.D.: He is not at the beginning, he has been doing it for a long time.
Fr. T.: For how many years? How old is he now?
C.D.: Since he was little. He is 40.
Fr. T.: Okay. Until the devil finishes him off. The devil seeks the human soul; the devil gives absolutely anything.
C.D.: But he goes to church, to the Divine Liturgy.
Fr. T.: Does he receive Communion?
C.D.: He hasn’t… for a long time.
Fr. T.: Well, that’s where the problem is. He needs to go to confession and you’ll see what will happen.
C.D.: He looks for a spiritual father, but he can’t find one as he should…
Fr. T.: Yes, yes, the enemy doesn’t let him bring it out of himself. Because if he brings it out of himself… may the Good God forbid! I know a man who also went to church and so on, and he saw Saint Nektarios every week, I’m speaking very seriously, he saw him in light and so on. Until the moment when he went to confession and so on, and then, when he saw that a stench came out and so on, the man almost lost his mind. And after that, indeed, he was on pills, meaning psychotropics.
C.D.: Yes, yes.
Fr. T.: So, it is very dangerous because the devil takes him as far as he can take him. And if he leads him to death, that person will die with a smile on his face.
C.D.: Well, that is the problem! For those who die with a smile on their face, it’s that drugged state, you are in that state of ecstasy and of drugs and you throw yourself off a building out of happiness…
Fr. T.: Yes, it really happens, you should know!
C.D.: Yes, well, that’s what I’m saying.
Fr. T.: Speaking of this, since I’ve started now, there was someone who was praying together with his guardian angel. Saint Joseph the Hesychast says that the devil deceived one of his disciples…
C.D.: He was saying “Lord, have mercy”…
Fr. T.: Yes, “pray with the guardian angel, but don’t tell anyone,” and eventually Saint Joseph realizes that this one has some problems and presses him a bit – “what’s going on?” – and the disciple tells him. And he gives him two slaps: “aren’t you ashamed?” and so on, “you see that you are in deception.” And this disciple was actually saying that on that very evening he was going to climb somewhere high on a rock and Saint Elijah would come with the chariot of fire and take him and carry him away. You’re laughing…
The devil was about to throw him into the abyss. Do you understand? And he led him like that, both horse and rider, you know? And glory to God that Saint Joseph woke his disciple up. Do you understand? And it’s the same with all these things.
Likewise with sorcerers – very many sorcerers think they are doing good until the moment when the devil corners them. He takes their soul, either theirs or that of their loved ones, and they are destroyed completely, totally, and then they can no longer get out of there. It is very, very dangerous!
C.D.: I do not know what could convince them, other than God humbling them. What else could convince them? I was convinced by “The Devil and Magic” by Saint John Chrysostom. I read it and it convinced me.
Fr. T.: Yes. For them, there has to be a click. I mean, he has to go to confession sincerely and have faith, that is, to humble himself: “Well, since the Church says it’s like this, it means that’s how it is.” I mean, doesn’t it strike you as odd that everyone says it’s dangerous and only you say it’s good?
C.D.: Many say it’s good, they don’t trust the Church either, they are against the Church.
Fr. T.: What is their fruit? Where is the holiness? I mean, from generation to generation it’s known how many families have been destroyed by all those who read cards and so on, clairvoyants, pseudo-clairvoyants and so on.
C.D.: They say they are helping, father. They are very bright and attractive.
Fr. T.: Yes, I know, and gentle, sugar-coated…
C.D.: And they mix Christ with Buddha because they themselves don’t know…
Fr. T.: These people are outside the Church…
C.D.: They are outside the Church, but they think they are in the Church, they think they are doing good things – reincarnation, numerology.
Fr. T.: In the case of reincarnation, as I was saying, there is evidence. As I told someone yesterday who believed in reincarnation and so on… I told him: “Man, if you believe in reincarnation, I’ll stab you!” Yes, the man froze. Well, there were more people present. And I said: “Right, because you’re going to reincarnate anyway in a future life and there’s no problem.”
C.D.: Infinitely…
Fr. T.: Yes, and I know cases where parents killed their children – so in China, infanticide is common, and in the USA, children are killed, especially girls, because “they will manage in a future life.” So these are some monstrosities. How can you believe in such a thing? Or believe in numerology?! I mean, what connection does a number have with a free person?!
C.D.: That is also out of selfishness.
Fr. T.: Yes.
C.D.: They do not see the value of the person.
Fr. T.: Yes. The person is reduced to a digit. So on the one hand, we cause a scandal with 666 that we are reduced to a digit, to a personal numerical code, to a chip or to I don’t know what, and they control us. On the other hand, with numerology, clearly we are – so numbers rule us.
Hey, brethren, make up your minds somehow! So you see, from one deception to another deception, from one distortion to another distortion. Do you understand? Yes, and these people are not many, but they are fierce because they desperately seek even 1% of people who validate them. And because the devil gives them this exaltation, they cannot humble themselves, they lack the flexibility of humility.
C.D.: Exactly. You’re Orthodox, you see that you don’t really know what’s going on, if someone says – to a woman – “Look, you didn’t put on a headscarf,” and she just ran away. If Jehovah’s witnesses knocked at her door – “oh, this and that!” That’s it, she went over there right away.
Fr. T.: God forbid!
C.D.: That’s the problem here and…
Fr. T.: Everywhere.
Much, much discernment is needed. How did we get from art to numerology, to occultism, to tarot… A final message? What could you say to young people who are interested in art? What should they be careful about and what should they avoid or what should they look for?
C.D.: Its meaning! Its meaning is the idea. That is, if they want money, they can do it, because they are deceiving young people, since the elderly now are no longer influenced by hip-hop and I don’t know what else. If they want money, I believe that God will humble them too at the right time. Only it would be better not to. Both for them and for others, if they care about others, if they are responsible toward themselves, toward others, and toward God, then it will be now. If not, they can continue like this and…
Fr. T.: They will hit their heads really hard.
C.D.: Yes, because that is exactly what I was saying: prayer is the reason for everything. That is, if that thing does not have a spiritual meaning, if it does not have a reason…
Fr. T.: If prayer does not grow in them, if love does not grow in them, they should not do it!
C.D.: Yes, exactly! If the object itself does not have love, the manifestation, the artistic creation.
André Gide: “Art is a collaboration between God and the artist, and the less the artist does, the better.”
Fr. T.: That is right.
C.D.: That is the idea. Because even I, when I used to write poetry, when I started to write – now I no longer write – but I wrote poetry when I made my debut and I didn’t know exactly what I was doing. Something was coming, I didn’t know from where. Back then I thought: I am a poet, look what comes to me here! I started, I tied this to that, from where, I don’t know. But now I realize and I see from where and whose work it was, and I can also see the foolish things in there, and that is why now I do…
Fr. T.: Yes, I remember a very great composer who is alive today, one of the most influential composers in the world right now. They were asking him questions and they even made a video clip, and with this I think it would be good for us to end: they asked him, how do you compose and how do you play? So the man is very, very influential, he did the largest tour in history or something like that. In any case, I was enormously impressed.
He said it like this, and especially considering that he’s not Orthodox: “You have to be as humble as possible when you approach the piece and let the instruments play by themselves.” So you let the music go on by itself and be as humble as possible. So this is phenomenal, so I believe this is art.
C.D.: Of course, I mean you also saw this humility in Chuck Schuldiner when he made “Lack of Comprehension”. Basically, that was a type of humility.
Fr. T.: Obviously. A type of weakness of his, of total humility, that this is it – that he cannot do otherwise.
C.D.: And that’s it, as you’ve seen, to the Glory of God! Or Mozart, or most of the great classics, let’s say, musical geniuses, agreed on this. I mean, they did it to the glory of God. A god…
Fr. T.: Yes, who is that… that is another story, but they always try to go towards God as best they can.
C.D.: Yes, they showed the meaning of art, they showed it. Whether they themselves got there or not, but concretely you can see the meaning of art in art, that is, in religion. Adam, where are you? And from there the liturgical framework up to today. If it is not there then…
Fr. T.: So art must be a liturgy.
C.D.: Exactly.
Fr. T.: May Good God help us! Through the prayers of our Holy Fathers, O Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on us! Amen.
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